2D Workspace Region Properties "URGENT"

[GIOV]

Hi Alibre Team and blog friends,
I am trying to use more extensively AD 2DWorkSpace as Preliminary Design Concept Stage but I am crashing with the Profile's Region & Region Properties. I know Inventor has this tool being very powerful but AD doesn't. Some comment about.

 

[bigseb]

Hi Alibre Team and blog friends,
I am trying to use more extensively AD 2DWorkSpace as Preliminary Design Concept Stage but I am crashing with the Profile's Region & Region Properties. I know Inventor has this tool being very powerful but AD doesn't. Some comment about.

2D workspace as in drawing space? If so its not really ideal for what you have in mind.

 

[GIOV]

2D workspace as in drawing space? If so its not really ideal for what you have in mind.

Oh yes,
When you do a mechanic & Structures calculation based in rules this tool is essential. If not, you only applies a part simulation but is not my stage because for example, I need a specific Area Section Modulus of one profile to obey a minimum requirement to go forward and not loss time.
Anyway thanks for your opinion,
GIOV

 

[bigseb]

Alibre just isn't intended for that sort of thing. You may need to get another tool for that.

 

[Lew_Merrick]

Oh yes,
When you do a mechanic & Structures calculation based in rules this tool is essential. If not, you only applies a part simulation but is not my stage because for example, I need a specific Area Section Modulus of one profile to obey a minimum requirement to go forward and not loss time.

Hi Giov -- The "issue" is "2D Analysis" versus "3D Analysis." "Plane Moduli" values are best defined & derived in a 2D Environment rather than a 3D one. The Drawing module exists to provide a Drawing Environment and not a Design Environment. Now, if you check, my Libraries of "structural shapes" provide basic "Plane Modulus" values to make it easier to perform base (i.e."rough") analysis. -- Lew

 

[GIOV]

Thanks Lew , The 2DWorkSpace Region Properties is a essential tools for a "mechanic Software that pretends to be" The rapid iteration to achieve the optimum is essential in the field of structural & mechanical calculations, specially in composite profiles and plaques that at the same time must obey specific rules.

"Plane Moduli" values are best defined & derived in a 2D Environment rather than a 3D one.

If you have the area properties no only in 2D WorkSpace but also in the Part & Assemble WorkSpace Plane (as Section View) will be a minimum for my side. One option is implement Excel add-in in the 2D Workspace to carry out the (as example) Area Section Modulus but will be more difficult for composite structures.
thanks again Lew for your comment and sources.
GIOV.

 

[HaroldL]

The 2DWorkSpace Region Properties is a essential tools for a "mechanic Software that pretends to be"

This sounds like a conversation you need to have with Max to understand what the intended capabilities of Alibre Design are. You may be getting into an area that was not intended or thought of.

 

[GIOV]

This sounds like a conversation you need to have with Max to understand what the intended capabilities of Alibre Design are. You may be getting into an area that was not intended or thought of.

HaroldL,
Rhinoceros has this tools and cost less, Inventor has this tools and cost more. I understand AD is affordable Mechanic PROFESSIONAL Software. I don't like AD team focus in cosmetics graphic thinks and not the essential tools that make the life better for its customers. Look this Screen-pic that give an example that I am looking for:

 

[bigseb]

That's a bit unfair. They haven't just focused on cosmetic graphics. They have steadily added to make this software better and better. We might not always get what we want right away but its on the list. What you're asking for... tbh it's the first time I am reading about it on this forum so yours might be a new/unique request. Speak to Alibre and see what they say.

 

[idslk]

Look this Screen-pic that give an example that I am looking for:

As far as my earth is not flat ;-), i've transposed your sketch into the 3D-workspace and extruded it 1mm thick (for the easy of "manual calculations") and used the physical properties...


This works also for complex shapes.
In addition the values of the physical properties calculation are accessible from AlibreAPI for further calculations (like CoG...)
Regards
Stefan

Edit: due to a misreading by me, i had to change the picture. sorry.

 

[simonb65]

When you do a mechanic & Structures calculation based in rules this tool is essential.

I'm a professional user and have never considered the 2D drawing workspace as anything more than documenting my 3D models! If you want to do 2D based analysis, then use the appropriate tool (i.e. Rhinoceros!), not Alibre.

As @idslk suggests, what you are trying to achieve is well within the realms of the 3D workspace and makes more sense to use that methodology/tool. A 2D drawing has, by it's nature, no volume, in the same way a drawing on a sheet of paper has no volume! Not sure what your workflow is, but you're trying to do something the 2D tool is not currently capable of.

If you want it to have features like Rhinoceros, and all improvements are a step in the right direction, then log a formal enhancement request directly to Max and the Alibre team. If you want the feature 'now', then you either need to change your approach to the problem or use a tool that does (i.e Rhinoceros).

 

[Hunter]

As far as my earth is not flat ;-), i've transposed your sketch into the 3D-workspace and extruded it 1mm thick (for the easy of "manual calculations") and used the physical properties...
View attachment 32210
This works also for complex shapes.
In addition the values of the physical properties calculation are accessable from AlibreAPI for further calculations (like CoG...)
Regards
Stefan

I also just get the properties for a 1 mm thick extrusion as per Stefan's example, it gives you the correct results, you just need to multiply by 1e9 to get the units to mm^4 or multiply by 1000 to get it in m^4 (if you work in SI (N, m, kg)).

 

[GIOV]

Thanks All for the feed back,
Certainly I will write to Max this improvement (2D Region Properties) as I understand the 3D with thin thickness to achieve area properties and not volume but when the process is iterative to arrive to the best solution and at the same time follow the minimum rules requirements, gives an high error margin (To translate all data as show Stefan & Hunter) so the all workflow will be a waste time. I hope your understand me.

Not sure what your workflow is, but you're trying to do something the 2D tool is not currently capable of.

Simon, Thanks for your approach:
I am trying to do the following workflow in AD:
1.-Concept Design in 2DWorkSpace to obey the minimal Mechanical & structural rules and follow my design requirement;
2..-Do this in 3DWorkSpace and applying FEM simulation if all part or assemble give the minimal design task including the safety margin;
3.-Make final document in 2DWorkspace where the part or assemble follow the safe rules with the optimum design task.
Thanks again to all!
GIOV

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

Scripting is great for iteration. However nobody can help much without you telling us - the process to iterate, the best solution goals your looking for, the minimum rules requirements to follow, and the units you need it in.

 

[idslk]

as I understand the 3D with thin thickness to achieve area properties

Sorry, no, you haven't understood. The 2D is a projection of a 3D object and the thickness could be infinite big...

gives an high error margin (To translate all data as show Stefan & Hunter)

All (and somethings more) "translations" (scientic notation is standard in such calculations...) for you can be done with Scripting and this is not rocket sience...

so the all workflow will be a waste time

So don't waste more time and learn the scripting language to make your life mor comfortable...
Or, sorry, ask for concrete help, instead of saying Alibre isn't capable like others...

Edit: Nate has been quicker than me...

Regards
Stefan

 

[GIOV]

Sorry, no, you haven't understood. The 2D is a projection of a 3D object and the thickness could be infinite big...

I mean a thin Feature Extrude Boss.

All (and somethings more) "translations" (scientic notation is standard in such calculations...) for you can be done with Scripting and this is not rocket sience...

I do not if will be practical to give the Area Section Modulus for complex structures iteration.....

Or, sorry, ask for concrete help, instead of saying Alibre isn't capable like others...

AD must be capable of this essential task being that I have a good experience with the software but ever I am trying to do my little contribution for the right direction of its improvement. Do you remember the 3D point?! it was my request and you make fantastic achievement and for that I am so happy but other like cubicspline in Wizogrid wasn't yet achieved, or divide in points a curve spline or line in 2D-3D WorkSpace ...or the 3D curve (3D Sketch) in a assemble workspace for to be constrained as a movement path. That are some examples.
(I have in Pendo Feedback suggest a feature waiting for 2 -3 years)
Anyway, thanks Stefan and all for your feedback!
GIOV

 

[idslk]

Hello Giov,

I am trying to do my little contribution for the right direction of its improvement.

that's wellcome

However nobody can help much without you telling us - the process to iterate, the best solution goals your looking for, the minimum rules requirements to follow, and the units you need it in.

! it was my request and you make

try it again... ;-)

Regards
Stefan

 

[HaroldL]

I don't like AD team focus in cosmetics graphic thinks and not the essential tools that make the life better for its customers.

Like I said, this is a conversation you need to have with Max, maybe PM him directly to voice your concerns. For what it's worth, I'd like to see more functionality in AD but for my needs right now, as a hobbyist, it is pretty good. If I were using it as a business tool I'd likely push for more.

 

[JST]

Yes, much has been done for cosmetics. Other work has been done to fix what did not work. Some considerable feature improvement has occurred. Not always features that I care about, but I expect that.

Since hobby users usually do not need such calculations, I expect it will take much longer to get what you are asking for. Alibre has to go for the largest market, or there will be no more program or company.

Alibre is a small company, and does not have the resources of Autodesk. Some things will NEVER happen with Alibre.

Alibre may just not be the program you need.

 

[Ralf]

What about GrafiCalc® ?
https://www.graficalc.com/index.php