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AlibreCAM Discontinued Again?

jodell

New Member
This is really simple in my book. Alibre allowed MecSoft to use the Alibre brand and therefore has assumed some responsibility here. From my perspective, I will save money on AlibreCAM support since they no longer support the product I use. Once AlibreDesign stops supporting the last available AlibreCAM version then I will save the support dollars for AlibreDesign also. I guess Alibre will show us what our support dollars are really good for.
 

ruizvial

Member
I mean I kind of understand your point, but again the notion that "we would have relaunched AlibreCAM" implies we have anything to do with the sale, development, or support of that product. We have not been involved with any of that for quite a few years.



I very much doubt you are the only maintenence client. As I said, businesses refocus, shift, reprioritize, downsize, etc all the time. I'm not going to hypothesize about Mecsoft's situation. You would need to talk to Mecsoft about bugs and freezes in their product, as well as the availability in general. We just have nothing to do with their product aside from providing them development support when they request it.


I am very disappointed with your responses.

To say that it never had to do with Mecsoft is ridiculous.

Alibre was chosen precisely because of its mecsoft support.

I would have liked to read a more serious answer.
 

jcdammeyer

Senior Member
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I think this describes perfectly why Alibre has stopped providing any sort of support for MecSoft. It appears that there are holes in the drawings created by Alibre that break the CAM packages. Alibre doesn't want to fix them. Might well be finger pointing like it's your problem not ours. As I understand MecSoft finds that the Alibre files have errors that Alibre is not willing to fix. In either case as long term more than 10 year customer I find the current situation reprehensible.

From the above message I will be told it's not Alibre's problem. Even though I'm told to contact Alibre Support.

Just like they sold us out when they bailed and sold to 3D systems we're, being sold out again with the phrase Max, CEO of ALibre said: "As I said, businesses refocus, shift, re prioritize, downsize, etc all the time."

Max, CEO of Alibre is correct. But when companies do that without taking the needs of existing customers into account, without first asking existing customers how they would feel about this, that there may be price to pay. My guess is that within a year or two Alibre will cease to exist. I get to make the decision about maintenance this summer.
 

ruizvial

Member
View attachment 32993

I think this describes perfectly why Alibre has stopped providing any sort of support for MecSoft. It appears that there are holes in the drawings created by Alibre that break the CAM packages. Alibre doesn't want to fix them. Might well be finger pointing like it's your problem not ours. As I understand MecSoft finds that the Alibre files have errors that Alibre is not willing to fix. In either case as long term more than 10 year customer I find the current situation reprehensible.

From the above message I will be told it's not Alibre's problem. Even though I'm told to contact Alibre Support.

Just like they sold us out when they bailed and sold to 3D systems we're, being sold out again with the phrase Max, CEO of ALibre said: "As I said, businesses refocus, shift, re prioritize, downsize, etc all the time."

Max, CEO of Alibre is correct. But when companies do that without taking the needs of existing customers into account, without first asking existing customers how they would feel about this, that there may be price to pay. My guess is that within a year or two Alibre will cease to exist. I get to make the decision about maintenance this summer.

I will not wait until some summer for Alibre to understand that companies have social responsibility, misunderstanding the technology business, in which users are the center of the business.

In my naivety, I believed in the alibre-mecsoft alliance. But cutter mills are not interested in human stupidity.

I was given the opportunity to migrate to VisualCAD / CAM and take it, the VisualCAD learning curve of course like all CAD programs has a paradigm of use that must be learned, but sooner or later this was going to happen, and it is not a throwback to Atom3D.

The Alibre Workshop program is not something professional yet, and it is not a real alternative, to migrate from VisualCAD / CAM to Alibre WorkShop.

Even so, Atom3D is an excellent decision to make designs, and the Atom3D program will not be stopped for the moment, although some final designs will have to be migrated.

The bad thing is that mecsoft does not read the native files of alibre, nor the native files of mecsoft are read by alibre. In the end, you have to continuously export designs from CAD files to more standard formats.

I hope that Alibre gathers lessons from all this.
 
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Max

Administrator
Staff member
I am very disappointed with your responses.

To say that it never had to do with Mecsoft is ridiculous.

Alibre was chosen precisely because of its mecsoft support.

I would have liked to read a more serious answer.

Alibre doesn't have "MecSoft support". We have an API that other software manufacturers can use to integrate their products into Alibre products. MecSoft used our API to integrate their standalone VisualMill product into Alibre products. They developed it, market it, sell it, and support it. Alibre has not directly sold AlibreCAM (via a distribution agreement with MecSoft) for probably close to 8 years.

We have not "done" anything to remove "support" for AlibreCAM. The genesis of this issue is that MecSoft decided to stop selling it - a decision they made on their own, without our involvement, and that they could reverse if they wanted to. There is nothing in our software that prevents them from selling AlibreCAM or that prevents AlibreCAM from working.

It is not that I do not sympathize with your situation - it is that I cannot do anything to change it because I do not control MecSoft nor AlibreCAM.
 
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Max

Administrator
Staff member
I think this describes perfectly why Alibre has stopped providing any sort of support for MecSoft. It appears that there are holes in the drawings created by Alibre that break the CAM packages. Alibre doesn't want to fix them. Might well be finger pointing like it's your problem not ours. As I understand MecSoft finds that the Alibre files have errors that Alibre is not willing to fix. In either case as long term more than 10 year customer I find the current situation reprehensible

Respectfully, I'm sorry but this is simply filled with things that are not true.

"I think this describes perfectly why Alibre has stopped providing any sort of support for MecSoft. It appears that there are holes in the drawings created by Alibre that break the CAM packages. Alibre doesn't want to fix them."
  • You got an error while doing something presumably in a 2D workspace and have concluded that this error is the reason MecSoft decided to stop selling AlibreCAM and that we "refuse" to fix it? I would suggest you send the error to Alibre Support, especially if it's reproducible, so we can look at it and address it. Based on the error report, it doesn't look like it has anything to do with exported files specifically.
"Might well be finger pointing like it's your problem not ours. As I understand MecSoft finds that the Alibre files have errors that Alibre is not willing to fix."
  • Alibre's responsibility for import / export is to deliver files in standard formats, regardless of where they will be used. If you're using VisualMill, MecSoft's responsibility is to ensure that files written in standard formats can be read into their software. There is no finger pointing. It simply depends on where the issue is.
  • Alibre's responsibility for AlibreCAM specifically is to provide an API for MecSoft to use that allows them to do what they need to do. They have such an API, that has been developed by us specifically to support their products (and any other CAM products that might need those features). We've worked closely with them over many years to add new API features when requested. They have never told us about how our "files have errors that we're unwilling to fix."
If there are specific issues for some workflows due to errors in our software, we of course will address them. But to say broadly that our files are broken, we refuse to fix them, and then to imply that that's the reason MecSoft doesn't work is simply untrue on every level.
 
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ruizvial

Member
Alibre doesn't have "MecSoft support". We have an API that other software manufacturers can use to integrate their products into Alibre products. MecSoft used our API to integrate their standalone VisualMill product into Alibre products. They developed it, market it, sell it, and support it. Alibre has not directly sold AlibreCAM (via a distribution agreement with MecSoft) for probably close to 8 years.

We have not "done" anything to remove "support" for AlibreCAM. The genesis of this issue is that MecSoft decided to stop selling it - a decision they made on their own, without our involvement, and that they could reverse if they wanted to. There is nothing in our software that prevents them from selling AlibreCAM.

It is not that I do not sympathize with your situation - it is that I cannot do anything to change it because I do not control MecSoft nor AlibreCAM.

You think that having launched Alibre WorkShop, it was not going to generate consequences with the only product that was really integrated into Alibre at the professional CAM level: AlibreCAM.

Failure to understand is undermining the business position of your partners in your own software ecosystem.

In the end, we are the users who suffer their business decisions. Sometimes it is good to admit things as they are.
 

Max

Administrator
Staff member
You think that having launched Alibre WorkShop, it was not going to generate consequences with the only product that was really integrated into Alibre at the professional CAM level: AlibreCAM.

Failure to understand is undermining the business position of your partners in your own software ecosystem.

In the end, we are the users who suffer their business decisions. Sometimes it is good to admit things as they are.

Workshop is not a competitor to AlibreCAM. They are not targeted at the same use cases. They are not at the same price point. They are not designed to cut the same materials, by and large. Workshop is a very entry level package primarily useful for people with router tables cutting softer materials. Workshop has very few options, by design to make it simple - and people doing serious machining often need more control - that's fine, Workshop is not for them. AlibreCAM is 4-5x (at least) more expensive and offers way more robust control for a wide range of professional use cases.

Again, I'm not going to speculate on MecSoft's decision. You would need to ask them. But I strongly suspect that the introduction of Workshop has nothing to do with it for all the reasons stated above. If it does, then it's an odd business decision but it is theirs to make.
 
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bigseb

Alibre Super User
... I'm not going to speculate on MecSoft's decision. You would need to ask them.
I did. Mainly because I was curious; I don't actually use ACAM...

The agent I spoke said (this is not a direct quote, I'm summing up here):

It was a management decision to end AlibreCAM. It will not be returning later on. Customers that need to update/transition are being offered the standalone version. Also, the standalone version has things which they were not able to include in AlibreCAM like automated detection machining and NEST and ART modules.

Make of that what you will but it appears this was not an Alibre decision.
 

ruizvial

Member
Workshop is not a competitor to AlibreCAM. They are not targeted at the same use cases. They are not at the same price point. They are not designed to cut the same materials, by and large. Workshop is a very entry level package primarily useful for people with router tables cutting softer materials. Workshop has very few options, by design to make it simple - and people doing serious machining often need more control - that's fine, Workshop is not for them. AlibreCAM is 4-5x (at least) more expensive and offers way more robust control for a wide range of professional use cases.

Again, I'm not going to speculate on MecSoft's decision. You would need to ask them. But I strongly suspect that the introduction of Workshop has nothing to do with it for all the reasons stated above. If it does, then it's a silly business decision but it is theirs to make.

You seem to be right. Everything indicates that apparently it was a managerial decision of mecsoft.

It will be necessary to adapt ... to maintain the workflow between Alibre's CAD with Atom3D and VisualCAD / CAM.

Although now the question arises, why should I pay maintenance or have an Atom3D license, if the workflow is broken, and today they are cut off from VisualCAD / CAM.

I wish I could do something about it for those who believed in the alibre-mecsoft alliance.
 
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tgarson

Member
The DIvorce. From my perspective.

As of Alibre 22, Albre CAM still works. From MecSoft national sales manager: There will be no effort from MecSoft to continue this in subsequent Alibre versions. MecSoft claims to be the damaged party, citing Alibres refusal to be a cooperative "partner". They accuse Alibre of wanting Mecsoft to produce and provide them with AlibreCAM at an untennably cheap rate (No details provided on what that rate is). She hinted that Alibre wanted to charge them to provide the required technical information to continue integrating their product with AlibreCAD. It all seems to me to be a case of a bad divorce. There is plenty of "He said she said & She said he said" coming from both sides. Us users may never know the truth. Thanks a lot Alibre and MecSoft for abandoning the welfare of us children in your spite for one another!

You know what: I don't care who did, or said, what to whom, etc. I'm pissed at both companies for mutually torpedoing the best value in CAD/CAM. I can't use Mesh CAM because it's only 3 axis. Last year I paid MecSoft full boat for AlibeCAM and now its kaput, so I'm pissed at them (I blew my CAM wad on AlibreCAM). I believe Albre COULD have contacted me and told me this was happening as I'm sure the bickering was already going full steam at that time, thus giving me more choices. Nope: Not a hint from Alibre. (Divorces nearly always are not instantaneous events.)

Going off of my first foray into EasyCAM, it appears to be a dinosaur with new clothes. It's not even close to Alibre, or even RhinoCAM for ease of use and productivity. When I try to use it, I feel like I've stepped back in time to DesignCAD or TurboCAD from 20 years ago! Not at all parametric. No dynamic dimensioning. Even DesignCAD can provide dynamic dimensions that are bound to the object they describe.

The only options I can see that I can afford which aren't total train-wrecks or budget busters are (1) to continue to use Alibre CAM, export my files in a neutral format, then import them into EasyCAD/CAM for creating CAM ops. This will still cost me $800.00 per year for maintenance (at current rates) and be clumsy and inefficient but (fingers crossed) should work. (2) Switch to RhinoCAD, continuing to use MecSofts CAM. I looked at RhinoCAD before renewing my relashionship with Alibre, post 3D systems, and decided Alibre CAD/CAM was preferable.
 

bigseb

Alibre Super User
The DIvorce. From my perspective.

As of Alibre 22, Albre CAM still works. From MecSoft national sales manager: There will be no effort from MecSoft to continue this in subsequent Alibre versions. MecSoft claims to be the damaged party, citing Alibres refusal to be a cooperative "partner". They accuse Alibre of wanting Mecsoft to produce and provide them with AlibreCAM at an untennably cheap rate (No details provided on what that rate is). She hinted that Alibre wanted to charge them to provide the required technical information to continue integrating their product with AlibreCAD. It all seems to me to be a case of a bad divorce. There is plenty of "He said she said & She said he said" coming from both sides. Us users may never know the truth. Thanks a lot Alibre and MecSoft for abandoning the welfare of us children in your spite for one another!

You know what: I don't care who did, or said, what to whom, etc. I'm pissed at both companies for mutually torpedoing the best value in CAD/CAM. I can't use Mesh CAM because it's only 3 axis. Last year I paid MecSoft full boat for AlibeCAM and now its kaput, so I'm pissed at them (I blew my CAM wad on AlibreCAM). I believe Albre COULD have contacted me and told me this was happening as I'm sure the bickering was already going full steam at that time, thus giving me more choices. Nope: Not a hint from Alibre. (Divorces nearly always are not instantaneous events.)

Going off of my first foray into EasyCAM, it appears to be a dinosaur with new clothes. It's not even close to Alibre, or even RhinoCAM for ease of use and productivity. When I try to use it, I feel like I've stepped back in time to DesignCAD or TurboCAD from 20 years ago! Not at all parametric. No dynamic dimensioning. Even DesignCAD can provide dynamic dimensions that are bound to the object they describe.

The only options I can see that I can afford which aren't total train-wrecks or budget busters are (1) to continue to use Alibre CAM, export my files in a neutral format, then import them into EasyCAD/CAM for creating CAM ops. This will still cost me $800.00 per year for maintenance (at current rates) and be clumsy and inefficient but (fingers crossed) should work. (2) Switch to RhinoCAD, continuing to use MecSofts CAM. I looked at RhinoCAD before renewing my relashionship with Alibre, post 3D systems, and decided Alibre CAD/CAM was preferable.
That's a very different story to what I was to by Mecsoft, although I ddn't speak to the NSM. However I was told that ACAM users can migrate to Visualmill which Mecsoft say is better so...
 

Nick952

Senior Member
AlibreCAM development had been lagging further and further behind the other MecSoft offerings at each tier, over the past years (the reasons given by Mecsoft to me, each year I enquired about this, has already been posted).

The free Transfer to VisualCAD/CAM, is only available if you have current AlibreCAM maintenance.
Also note that based on past personal experience, you will have to contact MecSoft if you are eligible for a free transfer, as MecSoft probably will not contact you to offer this option.

MecSoft have also dropped their CAM product for Onshape, so not just us Alibre users suffering.

Bit of a pain loosing the integration, but I'll be migrating over to VisualCAD/CAM (if only to get the fully functioning CAM package, that I've been paying maintenance for, over the years!).
 
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simonb65

Alibre Super User
Guys ... whichever way you look at this, Alibre and MecSoft are two separate companies. They have responsibilities and duties that only cover their own customers, not each others! MecSoft made a product on the back of another product for their own business growth, not Alibres (in the same way my software applications are for the benefit my company, not for the benefit of Microsoft, other than the subscription costs of the tools I use). If I stopped developing or supporting one of my products, I wouldn't expect my customers to start blaming Microsoft ... it has nothing to do with them, that choice would be mine based on how viable it is for my business.

Now, if Microsoft decided to stop supporting 3rd party developers (i.e. Alibre stopped helping MecSoft) then that's their choice for reasons only know by them (taking vital resource away from AD development, support, tail starting to wag the dog! etc). Although in this case I suspect that the development costs associated with keeping AlibreCAM may have outweighed the revenue generated by it. If that was the case, then they are within their rights to stop developing it, they aren't a charity or loyal to customers if it's not a viable avenue to keep going down. Maybe they wanted to focus on a more popular, generic CAD/CAM product with a larger market and have limited development resources themselves to spread across their range of products! Maybe HOOPS was too big a core change for MecSoft to keep up with ... and MecSoft shouldn't be the one stopping the development of Alibre. If you make a product on the back of another, it's your responsibility, expense and decision to keep up or stop!

Either put pressure on MecSoft to resume development or go use another CAD/CAM application. They are your current choices as a MecSoft customer.

Don't hit on Alibre for something that they have absolutely no control over! In the same way my customers don't hit on Microsoft when I stop developing something that's not making any financial business sense.
 
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ruizvial

Member
AlibreCAM development had been lagging further and further behind the other MecSoft offerings at each tier, over the past years (the reasons given by Mecsoft to me, each year I enquired about this, has already been posted).

The free Transfer to VisualMill, is only available if you have current AlibreCAM maintenance.
Also note that based on past personal experience, you will have to contact MecSoft if you are eligible for a free transfer, as MecSoft probably will not contact you to offer this option.

MecSoft have also dropped their CAM product for Onshape, so not just us Alibre users suffering.

Bit of a pain loosing the integration, but I'll be migrating over to VisualMill (if only to get the fully functioning CAM package, that I've been paying maintenance for, over the years!).

I migrated to visual CAD/CAM, and I found a couple of surprises, the first one is that the CAM part has more options and more features (like some intelligent detections). On the other hand, the CAD part, I didn't like it very much at the beginning, and it doesn't have the parts support that alibre has, but it's different and you have to learn it, the learning curve doesn't take a few days and it has more features. For a machine shop, visual CAD/CAM is very useful.

I contacted mecsoft online and was given the option to migrate, which I accepted because I have annual maintenance with them and it was free. for me, it seems like a better option.

Alibre is a perpetual license, when its maintenance is over, I will see if I will continue to pay for a maintenance that may not have the benefits for which it was paid.
 

simonb65

Alibre Super User
Alibre is a perpetual license, when its maintenance is over, I will see if I will continue to pay for a maintenance that may not have the benefits for which it was paid.
Alibre maintenance does not cover maintenance support for third party add-ons! So, the only benefit Alibre maintenance has, is to get Alibre fixes and updates, nothing more.
 

bigseb

Alibre Super User
Alibre maintenance does not cover maintenance support for third party add-ons! So, the only benefit Alibre maintenance has, is to get Alibre fixes and updates, nothing more.
I think he means not paying AD maintenance since he's getting what he needs from VisualCADCAM.
 

Max

Administrator
Staff member
As of Alibre 22, Albre CAM still works. From MecSoft national sales manager: There will be no effort from MecSoft to continue this in subsequent Alibre versions. MecSoft claims to be the damaged party, citing Alibres refusal to be a cooperative "partner". They accuse Alibre of wanting Mecsoft to produce and provide them with AlibreCAM at an untennably cheap rate (No details provided on what that rate is). She hinted that Alibre wanted to charge them to provide the required technical information to continue integrating their product with AlibreCAD.

We have never charged any partner, including Mecsoft, for integration information. We have never tried to charge any partner for integration information. That is insane.

We did consider Mecsoft as a partner for Workshop, and that product's price point is aggressive. They didn't want to offer a tier of their product to fit into that price point vision, which is fine. We went with another partner for that product launch. Workshop has nothing to do with AlibreCAM. They are not sold by the same company and do not target the same audience.

That is literally 100% of the story.

If they decided to pull their entire product line because we chose a different partner for Workshop, as I said earlier, it doesn't make a ton of sense to me but it is their decision. I don't think that's the reason. I suspect the reason is this :

Maybe they wanted to focus on a more popular, generic CAD/CAM product with a larger market and have limited development resources themselves to spread across their range of products!

We did not force them, hold them hostage, charge them fees, prevent them from accessing development, or any other nefarious thing.

I'm not sure why that "national sales manager" would hint otherwise, but I will find out.
 
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ruizvial

Member
My hypothesis about the future of all CAD formats and CAD/CAM programs is that it is no longer possible to maintain them on pure standard formats as the CAM industry moves towards more robust machining support. Not only the design, but also the ways of manufacturing must be integrated.

It is therefore impossible to break the workflow from digital design to materialization. This includes AI to choose the best way of manufacturing. If one thinks about it, the future is not CAD/CAM, is CADM.

Note also the direction of the market: Bobcad moved to software rental models such as Fusion 360. Thus, mecsoft was freed to keep the traditional business and to be able to do CADM without thinking if they pay a license fee the following month.
 
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