Error in thread line settings - language other than English.

[Lukas]

Hello,

I have a question. Can anyone check if it is possible to set the conditions for external thread lines in the main drawing settings (in a language other than English)?

My settings window simply does not contain this option. I found that when I switch the application language to English, I have this option. But that changes everything I already have in my profile (drawing) - line weights and types, dimension heights and styles, etc., which is quite annoying. I should add that I have the window slider set to the highest possible position.

How can I easily change this setting for all threads displayed in the drawing without having to do it one by one in the drawing? Or will I lose all my previous settings?

See the image below:


Thank you.

 

[Lukas]

I finally managed to fix the above-mentioned error by making a backup and trying out the settings for a while. A tip if this happens to anyone else – I had to switch the application to English before I could make any changes.

But I encountered two more strange problems with threads. Could someone verify this so I know if the problem is specific to me or more general?

I don't want to start another thread unnecessarily.

So I will describe the problems below:

I have a part in STP 242 format, but also in STP 214.

1. Because Alibre does not completely connect the surface to the cylinder during import, I cannot immediately apply an external thread to this part (Alibre requires selecting a cylindrical surface). So I help myself by extruding a short circular surface on the imported part directly in Alibre. Then I select the resulting edge to create an external thread. This creates an external thread and "bypasses" the first problem. It's a bit of extra work, but it works

2. When I then create a drawing of this part directly, the threads are displayed normally in the drawing. However, when I place this part in an assembly and create a drawing of it, the threads become much larger. What is causing this problem? Do others have this problem too? How can I solve it so that I can have a visible thread on the imported part from the STP format in the assembly drawing?

For the examples, I always used the default templates from Alibre (without my modifications) to rule out an error in my templates. The exact same template is used for both the part drawing and the assembly drawing. See the images below for the results:

I have these problems with other STP components as well. Even with simple nuts and bolts.

I am attaching the files in the package for testing.

Thank you and have a nice day, everyone.

 

[DavidJ]

Have you tried deleting one of the half cylinders using 'direct editing tools'? (and letting Alibre fill in the gap) - that often gives a neater fix (though sometimes it will highlight other issues.

As for threads becoming larger, I suspect that may link to the model units of your imported file. After import, try re-export to STEP with export units set as cm, then re-import. That's a workaround rather than a solution, I know.

 

[Lukas]

Hello,

I tried that, but unfortunately it doesn't always work, often the entire area disappears without replacement. Could you try editing it according to your preferences and uploading the part back? That way I'll know we're both talking about the same thing.

Otherwise, as far as units are concerned, does the export have to be done in units set to cm and the import suppress the source units and set to mm? Because I need to work with mm units.

But it's strange that the problem only occurs with the drawing for the assembly, not for the part itself, so I thought that the units didn't affect it, because I'm working with the same part in both cases. Only in the first case directly with the .AD_PRT extension and in the second case with the .AD_ASM extension. But at the beginning, the 3D model of the part is always the same as the reference for the drawing.

 

[DavidJ]

If you substitute my part into your assembly, then re-project the drawing, the cosmetic threads will show as they should.

Model units are not necessarily the same as display units. Your part had model units of mm, where Alibre's default is cm. I've come across some cases in the past where this has caused issues, most of which have been fixed over time, but this one is still to be done.

 

[DavidJ]

It looks like there is a problem with the language resource file - these get customised for each non-English language. QA has been advised of this particular problem. If anyone notices problems with the UI in another language, please make sure to report it to support.

 

[DavidJ]

Otherwise, as far as units are concerned, does the export have to be done in units set to cm and the import suppress the source units and set to mm? Because I need to work with mm units.

No. Export with the export units for STEP set to cm (in system options). Re-import without overriding units - the display units will initially be cm, but you can change the display units once the file is open.

Overriding units during import should only be necessary if the file imports at the wrong size - which is very uncommon.

 

[Lukas]

Hello,

Thank you for your work.

1. I confirm that after testing the file you modified, everything works as expected in the drawing environment.

2. Could you try the modification you mentioned at the beginning? This way, I will know that we are both thinking of the same modification and that I am not missing anything. See the image of your description below:


3. Thank you for reporting the problem to support. Hopefully, everything will be resolved.

Have a nice day.

 

[DavidJ]

Item 2. Your import file didn't seem to have 'half cylinders' for the shaft - so the method I often use is not appropriate.

I tried deleting the chamfer on end of shaft, but that just left a hole in the part (so no use).

 

[Lukas]

Hello,

When possible, I do it using the function shown in the image below:



Do you use this function as well?

Another question:

Have you reported the issue with units to support? Because today I discovered something that I am not happy about.

Until now, I didn't need to display threads in the assembly drawing, but it's required for my current work. The problem is that I would have to re-export all the fasteners, which would be a lot of work for me. I don't know how to solve this problem, so I'm still thinking about what to do.

I assume that support will be able to solve this soon, as this error does not occur in the drawing for a classic part.

Thank you and have a nice day.

 

[DavidJ]

Yes, I use remove face.

Yes, I logged the units issue with Development.

I'm not clear from your latest post, is today's issue different from the initial one or the same?

 

[Lukas]

This problem is the same as the one for which you have already sent a "solution."

Until now, I haven't used thread displays in assembly drawings very much. But now it's required. And I have a large amount of fasteners in my drawing according to the DIN standard, which I previously used from STP formats (because I couldn't find the sources directly in Alibre). And since there were no problems before, I had no idea that I would have to import, export, and import again.

Everything works fine, so to speak. Except for the display in the assembly drawing. But I can't afford to start re-exporting a large number of files and re-listing all their properties and assigning materials to them.

Hopefully, Alibre will fix this problem. Or soon provide information about the upcoming library of standard components. Given this problem, I am really looking forward to it. Hopefully, the developers will succeed and it will save Alibre users a lot of time.

Thank you.

 

[DavidJ]

It's on the list, but I can't promise any timescale for the fix. This problem hasn't been reported previously, probably because it is unusual to show threads in an assembly drawing.

 

[Lukas]

Hello David,

today I found another issue related to threads and drawings. I'm not sure whether I should report it to the development team myself, or since we're already discussing this issue here, you should do it. This is to avoid unnecessary accumulation of similar requests. Description of the issue below:

When dimensioning a thread (this time it was a part drawing, not an assembly drawing), I used the Alibre function (thread hole description). The thread dimension was displayed correctly, but I needed to adjust how it was displayed according to my requirements. See the images below:

Default from Alibre:


My edit:


Everything was fine, but when I closed the drawing and then returned to it and added another dimension, such as the profile length, and saved the drawing again, the bug occurred (it may also be related to units). The error looked like this: After the above procedure, the thread dimension started to appear as M80-6H x 250 instead of M8-6H x 25. When I reprojected the design dimensions, the dimension returned to normal. However, in some drawings, I only noticed this after exporting to PDF just before sending it to the customer, which was a bit unpleasant. The bug recurred in multiple files, but they are all created in the same style. Imported STP aluminum profile, then modified the length of this profile and created a thread using the hole function.

Images illustrating the above:





I am attaching another package containing the part and drawing in the Alibre template. You can try to verify whether this is also happening on your end. I think all you need to do is unzip the package, open the drawing, add the length dimension to View 1 (which is 367 mm in my case), and save the drawing file. Then the bug will appear. Let me know if you have forwarded it to development.

Another bug is that the thread in the top view (View 4) is displayed as a solid line, but I think the template is set to display it as a dashed line. I have also encountered this bug many times.

Display in the drawing:


However, I would expect (without having to monitor and switch manually):


If the development team is going to consider threads, I would definitely appreciate it, and I think other users would too, if it were possible to save the settings for how threaded holes should be dimensioned. For example, the user could set that they want to display in the form of M8-6H and not M8x1.25, and they would be able to save this as their template.

Thank you for your cooperation and have a nice day.

 

[DavidJ]

It is known that edits to call outs don't survive reprojection. Cosmetic threads viewed 'end on' have different appearance from the starting face, or from back of the part. If you believe the representation is incorrect, please specify which standard you base this on.

Do enter a support ticket ( or tickets), which will facilitate any additional discussion.

 

[Lukas]

I think there has been a misunderstanding of what I wrote.

I wrote that, on the contrary, the reprojection returns the correct and expected thread value of M8-6H x 25 from the change that only occurred when I entered a different dimension in the model to a nonsensical value 10 times higher, M80-6H x 250 mm. I hope my description was not confusing. I would like someone else to test it.

The second issue concerns the display of hidden thread edges. I would expect that if the front side in the template is set to a solid line, it will be displayed as a solid line (which is what happened). I would also expect that if the back side in the template is set to a dashed line, the thread would be displayed as a dashed line (this did not happen for me, so I consider it a bug). This is evident from the projected views in my package. View 2 is completely identical to View 4, which I consider to be an incorrect behavior, as the thread in View 2 should be drawn as a solid line and the thread in View 4 should be drawn as a dashed line. Or am I misunderstanding the descriptions of the front and back sides in the images below?



In any case, thank you for your feedback. As soon as I have some time, I will send the description to support.

 

[DavidJ]

If you use Pitch Diameter as the 'source' - then the appearance of threads will be correct.

If using pitch diameter doesn't work for you - you can edit each cosmetic thread and force the appearance.

This probably does need some investigation - I noticed no cosmetic thread display if I used tap drill diameter as the source.

 

[Lukas]

I think we are misunderstanding each other. I am dealing with two issues:

Issue A:
Numerical value of thread dimension:

1. I dimension the thread using the hole description function.
2. I save the drawing file.
3. I close the drawing.
4. I open the drawing.
5. I add any other dimension (not for this thread).
6. I look at the dimension value of the thread even though I did not edit it at all.
7. The value of the thread description changes (it increases 10 times).

Yes, if I use the thread diameter and pitch as the source, which is selected as the default in Alibre, this value is retained even after the above procedure. However, the length of the hole will still increase 10 times. Reprojecting all dimensions will correct this to the correct length value. If I do not use reprojection before creating the PDF, the thread dimension value may be incorrect.



Issue B:
Visual appearance of the thread in different views:

1. In the template, I select how the front side and back side should look when displaying the internal thread in the drawing.
2. Front side continuous line (even the default setting in Alibre).
3. Back side dashed line (even the default setting in Alibre).
4. I derive the following views from the default view so that the thread is visible from the back side in one view and from the front side in the other view.
5. I check both views.
6. The thread is drawn in both views.
7. However, in both views it is drawn with a continuous line. Not according to the settings, once dashed and once continuous.

Everything can be seen in the file and images I sent. I just wanted to check here on the forum whether the bug is only on my end? Or am I misunderstanding the front side and back side names in templates?



I also have a question regarding the choice of formats when downloading models from a supplier's library. Please don't worry about units here, just the visual quality (surface connection) of the file. Which file type is best to choose? I've noticed that the unit problem can be fixed using Boolean operations directly in Alibre.

However, when importing STP files, circular surfaces are often imported into Alibre as folded, and I think other formats sometimes do not do this.

There is often a choice of formats:
STP 203, STP 214, STP 242, Parasolid, Acis 6.3, SAT 7.0.

Is there a general recommendation on which format to import into Alibre to minimize problems with surfaces? I have noticed that after Boolean operations in Alibre, a file is created that is described as SAT in the model tree. I want to take advantage of the community's experience and determine a direction instead of spending a long time testing or editing data due to downloading the wrong formats.

Thank you all for any information.
Have a nice day, everyone.

 

[DavidJ]

Your thread 'source' is smaller than the through hole on the part - that seems to trigger the appearance issue. I'm not suggesting this should happen, just saying it may trigger some confusion regarding the front/back determination.

I haven't been able to replicate the changes to the thread callout - it does not alter for me. Can you be more specific about how to trigger that? Are the descriptor cells in your thread definition file edited compared to the file delivered with Alibre? I can't get quite the same callout as in your image.

I notice that the model started from an imported file which has mm model units - as mentioned in other threads, there have been a few odd behaviours linked to model units of imported files. We need to identify exactly what the trigger is for this, so that we have a reproducible case for Development to study.

 

[Lukas]

Yes, I wrote about it in one of my first posts.


The design process was as follows:


1. Downloading the shape of the aluminum profile from the supplier of this profile. Downloading in STP format.
2. Importing into Alibre. (I now know that unless the Alibre development team makes a change, I will have to Import - Export - Import).
3. Adjusting the length of this aluminum profile according to my requirements.
4. Blanking a certain length of the hole in the profile using the extrude function in Alibre (because otherwise it would not be possible to create a threaded hole).
5. Create a thread using the hole function.
6. Create a drawing of the part (everything is fine, I don't see a problem).
7. The problem happens later, so please try this procedure on the package I sent you.



Procedure:
1. Unzip the package.
2. Open the drawing labeled KR-0002.
3. The drawing shows four views and only one dimension (the dimension of the threaded hole).
4. Do not click on this dimension yet, just look at its value. It should say M8-6H x 25.
5. Add any "normal" length dimension anywhere on the drawing. Just a dimension other than a hole dimension.
6. After adding this "normal" dimension, click Save File.
7. Look at the thread dimension value again. In my case, the dimension now changes to M80-6H x 250.

This change occurred without any warning and without clicking on the threaded hole dimension. If I were to export to PDF now, I would export the incorrect value of M80-6H x 250.

8. When redesigning the dimensions of the design, the thread dimension will return to the correct value of M8-6H x 25.

Everything seems to be fine, but under no circumstances should what is described in point 7 happen.



Regarding your question about whether I changed my own thread description, the answer is yes and no. Let me explain below:

YES,
I changed the default Alibre M8x1.25 (symbol) 25 (symbol) 118° to my desired M8-6H x 25.
After applying the procedure (in the text above) and saving the file (point 7), the change to M80-6H x 250 occurred. Both the thread value and length changed (to M80 and 250).

After your comments, I tried to keep the default Alibre settings, i.e.:

NO,
I did not change the default Alibre format M8x1.25 (symbol) 25 (symbol) 118°.

And after applying the procedure (in the text above) and saving the file (point 7), the change to M8x1.25 (symbol) 250 (symbol) 118° occurred. Only the length value changed. Only the length value changed (to 250).