Win 11 wont install on any PC where the EUFI can be turned off in BIOS, which is most PCs in the world. A LOT of people and companies are going to leave windows simply due to such an expense. Alebre goes to Linux, or it dies. Win 10 support stops next year. Be insecure, replace all your PCs, or go Linux. That is the choice Microsoft is forcing everyone to make.
Alibre under Linux?
- Thread starter srjacob
- Start date
Stu3d
Senior Member
I have been the IT person at work since DOS days on the basis I know slightly more than the others.
I don't allow important computers to be used for anything other than the task they were installed for. For example the accounts pc is not to be used for web surfing, email and is not connected to the other pcs over the local network. Unfortunately it has to be connected to the internet for payroll, tax etc.
Presumably a pc running Windows 10, or earlier, with just Alibre or Office or Sage on it would be safe even if connected to the internet or am I being naive?
I can understand large coorperations having a headache.
I don't allow important computers to be used for anything other than the task they were installed for. For example the accounts pc is not to be used for web surfing, email and is not connected to the other pcs over the local network. Unfortunately it has to be connected to the internet for payroll, tax etc.
Presumably a pc running Windows 10, or earlier, with just Alibre or Office or Sage on it would be safe even if connected to the internet or am I being naive?
I can understand large coorperations having a headache.
nenad
Member
Large corporations will have no headache. They will deploy Windows 11 Enterprise, on certified hardware, and employees will have to use it as it is.
Issues might be with smaller business and freelancers, but they'll do the same thing, more or less. I doubt any of them will stop using Windows regardless of what MS does with it. Maybe some of them will switch to MacOS, but only if 100% of available programs are ported. Which is for sure not the case in (mechanical) engineering.
Issues might be with smaller business and freelancers, but they'll do the same thing, more or less. I doubt any of them will stop using Windows regardless of what MS does with it. Maybe some of them will switch to MacOS, but only if 100% of available programs are ported. Which is for sure not the case in (mechanical) engineering.
jcdammeyer
Senior Member
If we really wanted to prevent Microsoft from changing Windows every couple of years to "enhance our user experience" collectively we just start a class action lawsuit to have Microsoft cover our conversion costs. So if a new PC along with upgraded software that won't run in the old version of Windows costs $5K then I think a 1 million person class action lawsuit for $5K each will probably get their attention.
Remember though even Alibre is designed to break old versions of Alibre files if you don't keep up. Yes you can trade STP files but a drawing done as an .AD_PRT in this year's Alibre can't be loaded in last year's Alibre so it's really not any better than Microsoft other than at least Microsoft doesn't do it every year unless you pay that subscription/maintenance/blackmail or whatever it's called.
simonb65
Alibre Super User
Sadly, it's the user who decides if they are going to upgrade, it's not forced on them by Microsoft. So no one is making you dish out $5K on new hardware. I ran Win7 until Win11 came out. I now run Win10 because it was a free upgrade. That'll be what I stay at until Microsoft physically disables Win10, which they won't, or my current hardware dies (which has been serving me well for the last 13 years with a few minor upgrades along the way).
That can't be said for the fruit based computer company that makes their 'identical' hardware 'obsolete' every 2 releases of OS for absolutely zero reason other than to produce hardware churn and treat unsuspecting users as cash cows. At least Microsoft allows you to cobble together a way lower cost hardware platform if you really want to keep your operating system up to date.
Me, I prefer sticking with what's stable, has drivers that support my peripherals and printers, etc. than yet another change to the UI and a slower, more bloated, user experience!
jcdammeyer
Senior Member
Not true. Try running the latest Alibre on WIN-7. I was forced to upgrade to WIN-10 in order to run Alibre. I would have liked staying with WIN-7 since all my other software runs on that including M9S12 compiler/debugger, Microchip MPLAB for PIC12, PIC16, PIC18 and PIC32 for which I had licensed compilers (not so for MPLAB-X and updated compilers). But alas, by the time I realized that I didn't need to update to WIN-10 I'd already been running a version of Alibre that created files that weren't compatible with the version that ran on WIN-7. And there's no SaveAs older revision feature in Alibre like there is in say Altium Schematic/Layout software.
So now I'm stuck with WIN-10 or lose lots of drawings.
The point is: Apple needs to sell hardware so it deprecates the hardware by changing the software. Microsoft needs to sell software and is trying to get into the hardware business. Alibre has to change the revisions every year in order to get people to buy maintenance so that they can exchange AD_PRT and AD_ASM files with people that are running the newest version. Even the newer Alibre ATOM files aren't compatible with a previous version.
It's fine if you live in an isolated world where no one else needs your designs, be they software or hardware. But if you need to be in the rest of the world you are required to spend money on new software (called maintenance or support) and if it takes you 25 hours to change your work habits for the 'enhanced' software (at $150/hr) the $3750 comes out of your own pocket or your customers for no change in the end product you provide.
simonb65
Alibre Super User
Never had an issue sharing designs or with all the many professional design tools I use in my business (and I'm on Win10 with a worse spec PC than you!). If you need to keep updated for business needs, than that should be in your annual business budget and should be recovered from your customers in the fees you charge or product price you set. That's business 101!
I've never been out of pocket as a business due to 'having' to upgrade. I still evaluate if an upgrade is essential and if not that money stays in the business for the next round of evaluation or next years budget and I invest that in something else (like test equipment!). That's why I'm still on Win10, not Win11 and still on Alibre V26, not V27 (they both export STEP files which is all my customers ever get offered ... and some of my customers are big corporations).
As for MPLAB, etc. I run 4 versions (3.55, 5.25, 5.45, and 5.50) depending on the project and customers needs. Same with Visual Studio (2010, 2013, 2019, 2022). You have to do what's most cost effective ... and upgrading for the sake of upgrading is not always the best choice. Upgrading because you have to, needs to be budgeted for! If you were doing stuff as a hobby or just for yourself, then that's a different ball game.
jcdammeyer
Senior Member
Let's see. Working with WIN-7. Forced to update to WIN-10 by Microsoft but also by Alibre. What do you know. My two ICD-3 programmers no longer work. Had to buy an ICD-4. Doesn't do anything different except that now I also need MPLAB-X and so on. Still programming the exact same processor using the exact same compiler except that's also been discontinued and I'd have to buy a license to get the new compiler. All I can see MPLAB-X giving be compared to MPLAB-8 is the ability to use two ICD-4's on two processors on the same board or on two different boards at the same time. Learning how to do things differently with MPLAB-X costs time. No one pays for except the customer and if the customer is willing to pay more than it's still money that I could have had for myself rather than give to Microchip.
And now I look online and see that the ICD-4 has been discontinued but I can buy an ICE 4 for just over $2K.
Nothing in the above description has improved my productivity or ability create projects. All it's done is cost me time and money.
simonb65
Alibre Super User
I still occasionally use my old ICD-2 (aka 'the puck'), although I've replaced the driver IC a couple of times as it's a know weak failure point, and a couple of PicKit3's. I've also got a couple of Pickit4's stashed in a cupboard just in case my PicKit3's die (the 4's are way faster!). Never had issues with PC drivers, especially for the older legacy PIC16's, PIC18's and PIC24's based PIC's! Only the newer dsPIC's and PIC32's need the newer dev tools, but even the PicKit4's support all those ... and at a fraction (currently less than $90 direct from Microchip) of the cost of the ICD-4 or $2K ICE.
Apart from the interfaces and optimised compilers, everything else from Microchip is free (MPLAB-X, etc). You should try getting into the PIC CCS C Complier nightmare (NOT!) ... updates every week to fix bugs and add new micro support and introduce more bugs, then every annual major release is another $300 ... just to get bugs fixed they introduced in earlier versions, and the code is locked into their own libraries, etc!
Just had to buy a Segger J-Link Plus to do a customer supplied project (Renesas based!) update and firmware feature add to their product. That was the best part of $1200 ... I just added it to the invoice!
I feel your pain, it can be a nightmare, but after 35+ years doing this, I know how to make use of older tools on older OS's without spending much on 'newer' tools that offer very little productivity ... unless the customer is willing to pay for it! Got a lot of dev tools over the years off of the back of quoting for a project
.
bolsover
Senior Member
I'm not entirely convinced.. I don't doubt that Alibre needs to sell maintenance packages - but they also need to invest in the product to provide updated and additional features demanded by the users. I don't doubt that those additional features will break backwards compatibility between versions.
HaroldL
Alibre Super User
I doubt maintenance packages are the driving force for updates and new versions. New features, enhancements, and bug fixes are likely the main drivers. And I look forward to each new update and version that Alibre comes out with. Remember, maintenance is not required so if you're satisfied with a prior version and want to stay with it that's a decision you'll have to deal with if you are passing files between systems.
I think backward compatibility is limited by new features and kernel updates. If a new feature is incorporated into a file that is then opened on a previous version the new feature, and likely the part, will fail.
I think backward compatibility is limited by new features and kernel updates. If a new feature is incorporated into a file that is then opened on a previous version the new feature, and likely the part, will fail.
stepalibre
Alibre Super User
Alibre Design running remotely or in VMs is a possible alternative to a native app.
As a fruit based computer user that dual boots Win10 and use Linux (GUI/CLI) for development on win and mac I see all sides. AD V27 runs on Win11 in a VM with low specs extremely well. Yes, memory and GPU intensive work is slow or not possible, but the performance is impressive. Combined with a light installation and size it’s the best pro 3D CAD package for running in a VM. You can use snapshots, move VMs around, and other tasks, which are made simple because it's small compared to Big CAD apps. My setup is an iMac, a tower PC and several Dell notebooks. I use AD remotely (RDP/VNC) and it runs fine.
Big CAD often use file format versions as a form of digital planned obsolescence. I'm not sure what Alibre is doing, but it's a common tactic. This is why I prefer neutral or open formats.
I said this before, and will repeat. McNeel's Rhino is a great case study for a CAD app that moved from Windows to another OS.
www.rhino3d.com
As a fruit based computer user that dual boots Win10 and use Linux (GUI/CLI) for development on win and mac I see all sides. AD V27 runs on Win11 in a VM with low specs extremely well. Yes, memory and GPU intensive work is slow or not possible, but the performance is impressive. Combined with a light installation and size it’s the best pro 3D CAD package for running in a VM. You can use snapshots, move VMs around, and other tasks, which are made simple because it's small compared to Big CAD apps. My setup is an iMac, a tower PC and several Dell notebooks. I use AD remotely (RDP/VNC) and it runs fine.
Big CAD often use file format versions as a form of digital planned obsolescence. I'm not sure what Alibre is doing, but it's a common tactic. This is why I prefer neutral or open formats.
I said this before, and will repeat. McNeel's Rhino is a great case study for a CAD app that moved from Windows to another OS.
Built for Mac: Metal
Blazingly fast 3D drawing, a massive speed boost for Mac users.
www.rhino3d.com
lgrfbs
New Member
It was nice to read (listen to TTS) through the whole thread and some of the posts clearly show that it is possible to run Alibre Design in VM on a Linux system.
I'll have to scare up the hobby account so I can email system76 for a turnkey Linux with Windows installed in a VM system where Alibre Desing + the supporting programs, which I now know will not be needed in the future.
Ideally I would have seen Windows system setup as on Windows 3.11 time GUI and system in two separate systems, as Linux has solved it.
It would have given me the possibility to have Windows 7 GUI on Windows 13 system platform and an update in the system would not change anything in the GUI and vice versa.
The way I see it, Alibre would sign a deal with System76 or LinuxMint where they get the source code for the Windows programs and then port it to Linux.
This way Alibre doesn't have to spend time developing a Linux version, but can concentrate on getting the program bug free and developing the features they want Alibre Design to contain.
Let's say we might need to buy a "Port to Linux" license in order for Alibre's partners to get financial support to do the job.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
I'll have to scare up the hobby account so I can email system76 for a turnkey Linux with Windows installed in a VM system where Alibre Desing + the supporting programs, which I now know will not be needed in the future.
Ideally I would have seen Windows system setup as on Windows 3.11 time GUI and system in two separate systems, as Linux has solved it.
It would have given me the possibility to have Windows 7 GUI on Windows 13 system platform and an update in the system would not change anything in the GUI and vice versa.
The way I see it, Alibre would sign a deal with System76 or LinuxMint where they get the source code for the Windows programs and then port it to Linux.
This way Alibre doesn't have to spend time developing a Linux version, but can concentrate on getting the program bug free and developing the features they want Alibre Design to contain.
Let's say we might need to buy a "Port to Linux" license in order for Alibre's partners to get financial support to do the job.
Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
techogre
Member
With the upcoming Windows update 24H2 that turns on Device Encryption on by default (https://www.windowslatest.com/2024/...1-24h2-turns-on-device-encryption-by-default/), Linux is looking better.
Yes, there are ways around it, but that's not the point.
Yes, there are ways around it, but that's not the point.
Ken226
Alibre Super User
After my last update I noticed a new on/off toggle for bitlocker, that was of course turned on.
I turned it back off. Should I not have done that?