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Anyone familiar with Pilot3D?

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Bob

Senior Member
Anyone familiar with Pilot3D?

I am not sure how user friendly Pilot3D is but they talk themselves up up pretty good as a NURBS surface generator with an emphasis on boat design. It can develop flat patterns from curved surfaces.

Priced from $70 to $500 or so depending on options desired, like analytical tools for boat hulls, it is not too expensive. (about $100 for the package I'm most interested in)

I was thinking that a hull shape could be developed in Pilot3D, and a .dxf file exported to Alibre for modeling, fixtures and such. The flat patterns being developed in Pilot3D.

Any comment or experience with Pilot3D??? A search of the forum only got two hits. http://www.pilot3d.com

Bob
 
Ralf

Ralf

Alibre Super User


Hi Bob,

Please have a look on this:
MoI -> SketchUp for MCAD Users
http://moi3d.com/
Programmer Michael Gibson worked at Robert McNeel & Associates from 1993-1999, then at Microsoft 1999-2003...

Ralf
 
M

MagneO

Member


Hello!

I have tested the newavesys product, I assume Pilot3d is the same without the hydrostatic functions.

My impressions:

1) Not very intuitive user interface, but off course that depend on what you are used to.
2) The strong points appear to be plate expansion and line fairing. I you are into boats this is a BIG plus.
3) I have managed to import a file into Alibre (via step I think (or was it IGES)). I did not manipulate it so I dont know if that would work.
4) I sent a question to the seller (maker of the software) and got a long email reply so the support is good.
5) My conclusion after about 5-10 hours of use/testing.:

Very good price/performance if you are into boats or sheet material based design. Interface to Alibre appear to work to a certain extent.

Best Regards,

MagneO
 
C

CGN

Senior Member


$70?? that's very good, I use Prosurf Basic which the software that pilot3D comes from, as MagneO commented is a different interface is not "BAD" just not a common layout so you will find yourself learning a little extra on how to move around.

If you are looking for a Nurb modeler that works with Alibre, check ViaCAD it cost $100 us, I don't think it develop surfaces but IMO best choice for new users.

If you need to develop surfaces, for low cost and lot of power maybe a combination of ViaCAD+Pilot3D, or stay with Pilot3D.

If you wanted for boats, this is what is most used, Generic speaking:

Hull Modeler (put name here) + Surface modeler (put name here),

Is almost a standard, a hull modeler will give you the tools and features to fair and control surfaces to make it easy for hull modeling
+calculations

For stuff like superstructure (cabins, wheelhouse other add ons like mast and detailing in general and also to work as a "bridge" between a rendering application or solid modeling application) then a surface modeler is used.

then Alibre you can import the sections or surfaces created on your surface modeler and model all the interior structure, cabinets and mechanical parts.

Is there an all around software for this...YES, only if you go high end and we are talking lot's of money. is there one on the low cost side NO.


cheers
 
B

Bob

Senior Member


I am specifically looking for something that can generate flat patterns from single curved surfaces such as found on a chined hull. Pilot3d is the lowest cost version of newavesys and I'm actually interested in the next higher package, ProChine. This is a better link to newavesys's packages- http://www.newavesys.com/products.htm (somehow I fixated on Pilot3D)

Somewhere in the on-line info I found this - "Full DXF and IGES input and output, including IGES types 143 and 144" I think that I should be able to import into Alibre. I was hoping for pro's and con's on this idea and any actual experience with the program.

If Alibre could only generate flat patterns....

Thanks- Bob
 
M

MilesH

Alibre Super User


DXF is of no use but IGES should work ok. 143 is skins, 144 is trimmed nurbs surfaces (like a solid)
 
C

CGN

Senior Member


I use prosurf basic, very good software and yes works with alibre, just use iges and you can import any surfaces that you do on prosurf into alibre, is easy to use, i do use it for hull modeling and plate layout development and i expand plates on it.

i never import any surfaces because for me prosurf is my first step when i work on a new boat, so i model there and expand my plates and that's what i use it for, highly recommended
 
M

MagneO

Member


CGN,

What type of boats are you designing?

I take it you import the hull and superstructure into Alibre to detail design?

I am interested in this on a hobby basis, and I would like to use the newavesys tools to design the hull and any superstructure, make the necessary hydrostatic calcs and then use Alibre to make drawings and to model other parts.

I take it from you earlier mail this is quite feasible, but can you for example make a hole in an imported surface?

Best Regards,

MagneO
 
C

CGN

Senior Member


MagneO,

It works fine just import your surfaces and you can use any feature in alibre, holes, thickness and more.

I don't use Alibre for sturcture modeling Yet, but i use solidworks at work, and i can say that is 100% possible on alibre (i own alibre), I just think solidwork is faster for this type of structural modeling, but there is no reason why you can't use Alibre.

I work mostly commercial boats, single chine, double chine hull shapes easy to build for most of the small yards.

cheers
 
B

Bob

Senior Member


I am a hobbyist who has actually only built one boat, a wood and canvas kayak, and that was over 40 years ago when I was fifteen. I won my copy of Design in last year's Xpress contest with- http://www.alibre.com/xpress/forum/viewtopic.php?t=461 It is a hard chined, 14', layout or marsh boat.

I didn't really know what I was doing in Alibre and every thing was done the hard way. I have redone the boat completely, adding two chines so that the sides are parallel below the waterline, still flared above, and so the deck is hard chined too. (This will increase interior space, final stability, and allow it to float in slightly more shallow water.)

The patterns would be easy to develop using cardboard and tape over the building stations but that is not the point.

I have downloaded the Newavesys chine program but I am not finding it to be very intuitive. The price is reasonable, even for me, but if I can't get over the initial learning hump, there will be no reason to buy it when the study period ends.

I've had good luck with a free program distributed by Carlson Design. http://www.carlsondesign.com/ They sell plotting cutters and related gear. They distribute "Hull Designer" to help generate interest in the hardware products they sell. The problem is that, while I can devlop patterns that are useful for actual boat building, it is a simple program that stops at the hull surface and the shape of the strakes (for up to a six chine hull). (It does bulkheads too but those are easy in Alibre.) The only thing it will export is .dxf so what you design is not particularily exportable.

What I really want is to be able to click on a surface on a part then generate a flattened sketch of the highlighted surface. I posted that as a wish some time back.

Bob
 
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CGN

Senior Member


"What I really want is to be able to click on a surface on a part then generate a flattened sketch of the highlighted surface. I posted that as a wish some time back. "

I wish i can help more but is not the software, prosurf will work anytime.

cheers
 
B

Bob

Senior Member


I'll keep at it a while longer, it will do what I want, I just have to persevere. Unless I save, export, or import, the trial count of 25 does not decrement so I have plenty of time to learn Newavesys's "ProChine 3".

It all makes me appreciate Alibre's relative ease of use all the more.

Bob
 
C

CGN

Senior Member


TouchCAD is probably the best software for developing of surfaces the only problem i see (even if is not a big deal) is the lack of iges, step or acis support, you can't import any of those files directly, or export, but way better than pilot3D
 
B

Bob

Senior Member


I have looked at TouchCad before. I use Alibre for personal use and mostly sit and daydream about the projects that I work on, thus the tag at the end of my postings.

Being for personal use and, at this time,and for one project only, any new program that I get will have to be BOTH easy to use and inexpensive. Were I a boat designer I would probably give the Pilot3D (or its family of programs) or TouchCad both a thorough evaluation. As it is, Pilot, while being priced resonably, does not meet my need for a program that is easy to learn and I did not even try TouchCad because it is not priced for my personal use.(TouchCad would be really reasonable for a pro though.)

I already have Alibre for most of my projects and Alibre has pricing and ease of use as guiding principles. To keep the price reasonable, Alibre does not do everything just most things. I still ask that Alibre be able to flatten any curved surface that can be made by flexing sheet goods.

I have given up, for the time, finding a flattening program.

Alibre will calculate the floatation of any boat at a given waterline by modeling the portion of the boat below the water as a solid and giving it water's mass. You can figure the same thing with the hull heeled over too.

I can get a pretty good idea of fairness by not using too many spline points and by making it reflective and rotating it around in the light.

If Alibre could make flat patterns it would be a great program for occasional small boat designers like myself. Alibre would also be of more use to sheetmetal workers, carpenters and anyone who makes designs involving curved sheet goods. I have come up with a work around so I don't loft patterns, or make construction drawings, by hand. http://www.alibre.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5417 My method looks pretty bad but goes a whole lot faster than the lead pencil alternative. I've used the method three times now and am suprised at how fast it goes. Figuring it out the first time is another story.

Thanks for the suggestion about TouchCad and let us know what you think of Pilot3D.

Bob

EDIT- CGN's posting came in while I was writing this tome. Importing and exporting files is also a big consideration for another program. Since I have already invested countless hours learning Alibre, Alibre is my program of choice for general modeling. Carlson Design has a nice, and free, program that is easy to learn BUT I cannot export to Alibre.
 
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