Cloud Storage

[NickBrearey]

We have engineers in multiple locations and are looking for a method for storing our files in the cloud so they can be accessed by all. We hoped that TeamPlatform may have been the answer but it is not really suitable for file storage. You can upload and download files but you can't use the TeamPlatform location as a file storage "folder" from within Geomagic. Also, many of our assemblies draw on common part files in "library" folders.

We would like to be able to upload all our Geomagic files (including the library files) to a cloud location which hopefully includes a method of in/out file management, is secure and is backed up.

Has anyone had a similar problem and found a workable solution? Thanks.

 

[Lew_Merrick]

Nick,

I use http://www.DropBox.com for such file sharing. I set-up a limited sharing folder set with my customers and sync my local working directory with them. The biggest problem with this set-up is that he who saves last wins. My work-around for this is that I save Package Files locally in a non-shared directory such that, if something gets overwritten, I can restore from an earlier version. Many of my clients' people do not do this, so this is a potential for problems.

As always, communications and coordination are key! This approach works regardless of the CAD/CAE system in use. I have customers who use SolidWorks, SolidEdge, and CREO as well as GMD. It is all about discipline, coordination, and communication. A failure in any one of the three has the potential to create serious problems. That is something that is true regardless of the approach used.

 

[NickBrearey]

Thanks for your prompt response. I'll look into it but we're looking for something that really would be a substitute for a file server in the cloud.

 

[Lew_Merrick]

Thanks for your prompt response. I'll look into it but we're looking for something that really would be a substitute for a file server in the cloud.

Nick,

Remember that in the cloud is really only a euphemism for somewhere, I just don't know where in fact. If you do not control and maintain your data, then you ultimately do not control or own your data! Anybody who believes in security on the internet, is just fooling themselves.

One of my old (1970's vintage) buddies is a professional syscruncher who works for one of America's alphabet soup agencies. I am not supposed to know what he can accomplish with any computer system actively connected to the internet, but I have watched him waltz through major corporate firewall/security systems in a matter of minutes. He is not one of the top tier in his field, just well-experienced at it. The recent breaches of major corporate firewall/security systems is only the veriest tip of the iceberg. Stop and think about it, North Korea, a country that has problems keeping a water system running, stands accused of crunching a major multi-national corporation's computer system.What do you suppose that real, experienced syscrunchers can do?

 

[DavidJ]

Nick,

M-Files is available as a cloud service and would seem to offer all that you ask for. You can also run it as an 'on premise' system, and allow remote access to your users at other locations. Hybrid cloud/on-premise systems are possible.

Note though that only Geomagic Design co-operates correctly with M-Files ('Design Elements' does not).
Geomagic Design also includes a seat of M-Files (on-premise) with each licence, these can be combined into a multiple seat licence for your organisation.

As for security, you'll have to satisfy yourself on that by taking appropriate advice - Lew's comments apply to just about any system connected to the internet, so I'd venture that something based in a professional data centre is likely to be as secure as an on-premise system that has an internet connection.

Whatever system you decide on, do ask up front about any costs to migrate data away from that system (if your needs change in future), or to get a physical backup copy of your data.

 

[dwc]

If data security is of any concern to you and you still want to use the Internet I would put some kind of versioning system on one of your servers and then allow access through VPN to external users. Although the cloud companies all talk loudly of their total data security, if they are US based al least that is laughable, they stand under US law.
It would be nice if the US spy agencies would offer backup services, but as far as I know they don't. That they do alot of spying for the industry is clear, the first I heard of the NSA was over 15 years ago when it came out that they were spying for Boeing as EADS (Airbus) realised that Boeing had access to their data.

I have a question as to how you use libraries with GM. I have not found a way to be able to use any file that is read only (as any library file would be) with AD or GM. The program wants to be able to write any file at any time and it does quite often write to files that have not been changed as far as I can see. My attempts at making files read only have all failed. This, in my opinion, precludes any use of libraries, as a library file, as I see it, must always be the same for all products in which it is used. If this can not be guaranteed the library is useless and I see no way to guarantee that a file is never written using GM.
I now have libraries of standard parts and make a copy of the library files for each project. That way the library itself is always unchanged, any change will only effect one project.
How do you implement libraries with GM?
Best,
Don

 

[TonyM]

Our company has also been looking for an approach that will allow our Engineering team to be able to work from remote locations to create and modify GMD parts and assemblies. So far we have not found anything that will work.

Logging in remotely to the office server via VPN is extremely slow when working on large assemblies. And downloading files from the office server to a laptop to work remotely causes “Missing Designs” problems when the new/modified files are uploaded to the server afterward (this problem can only be corrected by manually navigating to the windows directory containing the “missing” files to reestablish the links - painful).

What we are really looking for is centralized storage for the GMD files (preferably with log-in, log-out management) that will allow remote access to our Engineering team but still allow designs to be created/modified with the speed as if all files are stored on the local computer hard drive.
If anyone knows of a way to accomplish this, I would be very interested to hear about it.

Thank you,
Tony

 

[NickBrearey]

Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.

Obviously, we are aware of the security risks of keeping data in the cloud, i.e. on someone else's computer, but hoped that we could find a secure location which we could potentially back up to our own server.

We tried M-files using the Alibre Vault but had difficulties with that. It may be ok if you start using the Vault with no legacy files but transferring existing files into the Vault gave surprising results. Many of our assemblies use sub-assemblies (and sometimes sub-sub assemblies) and then parts. We have assembly drawings and bills of materials that all use the models. When we copied the main assembly and the sub-assemblies into the Vault, we ended up with multiple versions of the assemblies and parts since they were used by the subs, the main, the drawings and the BOMs. We tried deleting the duplicates but then you have to remake the connections at each level in the structure of the model. Also, we found that the deleted parts would suddenly materialize in a subsequent work session.

So far as using library folders, we found the same thing. Basically you can't have the files read only.

 

[NickBrearey]

Tony M - You described the problem precisely. That's exactly what we are looking for.

 

[Lew_Merrick]

That they do alot of spying for the industry is clear, the first I heard of the NSA was over 15 years ago when it came out that they were spying for Boeing as EADS (Airbus) realised that Boeing had access to their data.

If you only heard about the No Such Agency 15 years ago, you were not paying attention! The NSA was established in 1956 as part of the American "response" to Sputnik. Since the mid-1980's, America has outsourced much of the data snooping to public-private partnerships with numerous companies. McBoeing and Lockheed-Martin are very near the top of the list of such public-private partnerships -- right behind TRW. There are a dozen or so industry journals that, supposedly, provide information as to how to gain contracts within this market.

I have a question as to how you use libraries with GM. I have not found a way to be able to use any file that is read only (as any library file would be) with AD or GM. The program wants to be able to write any file at any time and it does quite often write to files that have not been changed as far as I can see. My attempts at making files read only have all failed. This, in my opinion, precludes any use of libraries, as a library file, as I see it, must always be the same for all products in which it is used. If this can not be guaranteed the library is useless and I see no way to guarantee that a file is never written using GM.

In essence, to always load standard parts from a standard parts library, you will have to duplicate the library file path for each user. If I am going to have a universal library of (say) Gonkulator Armatures, the file path to that data will have to be (say) Q:\Designs\GMD Libraries\Futzen-Poken Things\Gonkulator Armatures\ with that file path duplicated on the computer of everyone using such goodies. The configuration of all parts and assemblies in that library will be maintained and distributed by whomever is the librarian for such things.

BTW: During WWII, the Brits and the American spy agencies ran a rather successful attempt to derail the German A-Bomb effort using Futzen-Poken and Gonkulator Armatures to distract Axis spy services. Hence what passes for my "joke" here.

 

[DavidJ]

Well one option to speed up access for multiple sites is to use cached replica servers for M-Files - that leaves CONTROL of the files on a master server, but actual serving of the files is handled at each site (it's a bit more complex). You still need fast network connections on site to serve the CAD files without too much hanging around (and the connection to master site is critical to co-ordinate everything).

Loading legacy designs into M-Files is not trivial - the import tools provided by Geomagic make certain assumptions about how projects are handled, without really having considered shared or standard parts. Generation of duplicates is an issue. If all design files are held in Vault from the beginning, things are simpler - though this still leaves the 'read only' issue mentioned previously.

It seems that most 'solutions' generate issues additional to those that they address.

 

[TonyM]

An approach I’ve been thinking about is to use a remote PC access software (like GoToMyPC) to remotely connect to my office PC (and GMD files on the office server).

Has anyone tried this? What was the experience (speed) like?

 

[dammerel]

hi all
i save all the files on google drive and use teamviewer to access GM

 

[H-L-Smith]

To perhaps amplify on Lew's library path information (very helpful, Lew), just about every operating system has a way of scripting the various "default" paths used by users who log in to a system. Most of us never bother to use those facilities, or it is done for us by IT folks and systems administrators. My point being, that if your organization has the ability (and discipline) to use such scripts, Lew's insight could be used to solve the standard parts libraries issue.

You can always add paths to the one you might have on your individual workstation, and almost always append to them (or have the workstation path appended to the "cloud" server paths, so that they are search last) to what you have if you wish to preserve those too.

Cheers, and Happy New Year;

 

[H-L-Smith]

hi all
i save all the files on google drive and use teamviewer to access GM

Is "teamviewer" a Google software, and if so, what does it do for you when using Google Drive?

Thanks,

 

[dammerel]

no, not a google product, i use google drive to store the files
teamviewer is remote desktop app, i can view my office desktop and work as if i was in the office
the lag is not too bad depending on your internet connection, i find it very good and easy to use

 

[Giecon.nl]

Take a look at bt sync: http://www.getsync.com
I use the free version it to sync two locations so far without problems works quite well.
There will be a pro version later with more features, but the free version will remain free.

 

[dmckee101]

Oddly enough, I was reading an article on a completely different topic, but noticed an ad for Grabcad, a PDM. I took a look at it and found it to be interesting, then checked in here. It may be a solution for you. (Not a completely unrelated chain of events, but odd never-the-less.)

http://www.grabcad.com

 

[TonyM]

Dammerel, what you are doing sounds very much like what we need.

Just to clarify – You are in a remote location using computer (A) running the TeamViewer software. You connect to your office computer (B) over the internet and run the GMD software to open the GMD files stored in folders on Google Drive.

Is this correct? Or are the files stored on your office computer (B) and you only use Google Drive for backup/file sharing?

Thanks for your help
Tony

 

[dammerel]

Hi Tony
yes, we put all the files on google drive (which is just a shared folder)
this is sycn'd to the cloud and all other computers
you needed to be happy with google looking at your designs haha