From cabinet design to CNC machine?

[artisanicview]

I want to know if the Alibre Design Workshop is a complete solution for Cabinet makers? As I see from presentation seems to be able to make some parametric furniture, to export to Sheet Layout for sheet optimization, but what about to send all the drawings to a CNC machine for cutting and drilling? Something like this:

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

I don't think they have anything like that yet. It would be nice if they did and I was wrong. You would have to run it through another program to output the NC code. At least that is what I do for our laser tables.

 

[artisanicview]

. I searched around for a complet cabinet solution and is frustrating that you need to pay 7-8K just to have all the drawings (with drill holes) into the same layout to generate the cnc code. Alibre have a CAM module and is integrated with Sheet Layout, so I thinked that maybe this will do the trick.

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

Maybe one of the woodworking guys can chime in here as I don't have woodworking but have never heard of a CNC part of it.

 

[artisanicview]

Yes. Seems that Whorkshop edition dont have CAM module. So, how you to export all the drawing from Alibre, organize them in sheets and generate the cnc code?

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

We do sheet metal layouts for our CNC laser tables (a very similar process) by making a drawing of all the parts full scale and then export it as a dwg file. We import the dwg file into a nesting software (from our pre-Alibre days) that lets us rotate parts, and bump their edges together to maximize material usage. That software generates the code for us and has modules available for purchase to keep track of sheet inventory.

For wood working you could use the wood layout and export that full scale to another program that generates the code.

 

[WoodWorks]

We do nesting in assemblies, or use our copy of MasterCAM and the ATP for automated nesting. EnRoute is another popular CNC nesting solution.

We create a nested pattern as an assembly, and then create a Drawing to output the 2D layered DXF for manufacturing.

An affordable CNC solution is to use Aspire or V-Carve Pro from http://www.vectric.com, which will release a nesting module within the next month or two.

These solutions are not associative as with the Alibre CAM, but work for us and our woodworking designs.

 

[artisanicview]

Thanks for answer. Now the question is how to "explode" and organize a furniture into sheets? Maybe is a dumb question, but I have no knowlege with Alibre products and everething seems so complicated.

 

[WoodWorks]

You create each part of your furniture as a separate part file (or Configuration in a Part file). You create the furniture by creating an assembly of your parts. Your entire piece of furniture is an assembly of parts, or sub-assemblies of parts, to create the entire piece of furniture.

You can nest all your parts in another nesting assembly file, or you can create a Drawing of each part and output a 2D Layered DXF file from the drawing of each part and then nest the resulting DXF files with an external CNC program. A nesting Assembly file is just an organization of parts in a Sheet format (of which we generally make if 4'x8') and then create a full scale drawing that is also 4'x8' in dimension.

Once you get the hang of CNC work, you can create your designs with Blind Dados and other CNC related joinery for more efficient furniture construction. What has been missing was a CNC program for nesting that was affordable, which should hopefully be answered with the next release of Vectric software. Currently you can purchase a nesting software with an ATP or automated nesting module. We use the KCDw import format with MasterCAM and EnRoute. The nesting routine will take the Layered DXF files and automatically nest them for cutting your flat sheet parts.

As with most things, it is not complicated once you learn how to do it, but can seem very much so while you are learning. We have also automated the process with AutoHotKey scripts to make everything go more smoothly. But, it is mostly just creating a full size drawing of each part, Export the DXF file, and then nest with your software. Or, manually nest by creating an assembly, and then the drawing of the nesting, and finally output the DXF of the nested assembly for coding in your CNC program of choice. Most people with a CNC machine have some sort of nesting software, so we do not do much nesting with our MasterCAM software (which cost us about $3500 with maintenance). We started with Alibre Professional, and now own Expert, as the Configurations capability is well worth the extra money when doing woodworking modeling.

I will be glad to answer any questions about the process and our procedures. You can contact us via email via the forum or our website if you have specific questions.

 

[artisanicview]

But, it is mostly just creating a full size drawing of each part, Export the DXF file, and then nest with your software. Or, manually nest by creating an assembly, and then the drawing of the nesting, and finally output the DXF of the nested assembly for coding in your CNC program of choice.

Thanks for your answer. The question is if the nesting programs can retain all the drill parameters and export the CNC code for drills. From what I seen around a nesting software only works with shaped forms without to retain any informations about drilled parts like is posted in picture above.

 

[WoodWorks]

Yes. We do hole drilling all the time with our CNC coding. The holes you have defined in the picture just need to be on a separate layer (or select and code them separately).

We are able to do Outline routing, centerline routing, peck drilling cycles, hole drilling, and any other operation supported by the CNC software. We are mostly familiar with MasterCAM, but other programs should support the same operations if setup properly. We evaluated quite a few CAM programs and bought MasterCAM because of the output graphics (EnRoute was our second choice).

V11 of Alibre provides excellent DXF output, of where you can simply move the linework to a layer, or overlay toolpath linework with new graphics, and constrain it to the existing graphics. We create layered DXF files where we often overlay linework over the existing graphics (as you can only move a line to one layer). Holes we generally just move the graphics to a layer as they do not share lines. We do this extra work in Alibre as the layered graphics will adjust with changes in the model. Change the size of the model, and you can output a new DXF with all the layered graphics in their new location. If you output a raw DXF, you need to re-toolpath the graphics in your CAM program. Even one off output is often faster to layer the graphics than to code it in your CAM program.

Granted your $15,000 cabinet program will automatically create your layered graphics, but then again Alibre will allow you more design freedom to create whatever you can conceive. For stock cabinets the expensive cabinet programs are more efficient. But for custom design furniture and cabinets, Alibre can prove to be more efficient. We have also created standard cabinet models where we can now create cabinets with nearly the efficiency of the expensive cabinet programs.

Vectric has been discussing their next release which will contain nesting, and we hope that will bring nesting into the affordable market. For now, we recommend Alibre Professional (with Configurations) and one of the CAM programs with an ATP or Nesting module (MasterCAM, AlphaCAM, EnRoute ...). We are always glad to spend some one on one time on the phone with other woodworkers and let you know the advantages of Alibre. We own other cabinet software, but prefer Alibre for our custom work.

 

[indesign]

A bit cheaper but they do have a sheet layout addition would be Bobcad. Not at all like Mastercam but much less money for this type of cutting.

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

Ugh Bobcad. To think their sales guys were trying to sell me that crap as 3dCAD. I'm sure glad I didn't just buy without trying and found a trial of Alibre soon after. That said, I have heard the CAM part is ok.

 

[indesign]

I have used both together for some time. The solid modling is not parametric and lacks a lot of tools. With that said I must admit I was able to do some surfacing I could not do in Alibre. But the CAM part is starting to get pretty nice but it is still behind other major companies. It is a good value for the dollar though.

 

[buildingblock]

There is no way you should rely on the program to fill in all of the gaps you may experience in woodworking. It can be used as a very solid compliment, especially if your IT person was supplied through IT staffing, but they way it sounds here you might be putting a little bit too much faith in to it. There are some elements of woodworking that are purely human. For somebody like me who prefers to work on a smaller scale it is very important for me to not rely too much on technology and either consult with IT or add the human element myself.

 

[artisanicview]

Half the story can be resolved using a free AutoCad plugin: WoodyCAD - FREE 3D furniture design http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W9AsTWjlsI. Only I can achieve similar results in Alibre...