Geomagic Utility Files Area (Proposed)

[Lew_Merrick]

As many of you should be aware, I have uploaded quite a few library systems for Alibre/Geomagic over at GrabCAD over the past few years. Apparently their index system went to snot sometime last summer. It seems to me that we need our own files area for goodies that make our CAD tools more productive. I have been arguing for this for a long time and I suggest that it is time to take matters into our own hands.

1) My immediate list of Categories would be: Component Libraries (i.e. entire sets of part or assembly files organized to provide access to things such as structural steel or aluminum shapes; nuts, bolts, washers, and other standard hardware; bearings; and the like) that are used as is; Component Design Utilities (i.e. spring design systems, gear design systems, and other (semi-)expert systems that lead one through the design process such as my C&G End Spring utility that may be found at (you have to log in first) https://grabcad.com/library/closed-grou ... c-design-1 does); Forms & Formats (i.e. alibre_unicode... examples, drawing template examples, etc.); API Programming support (such as the AD Script project); Example or Tutorial files (i.e. how to make Geomagic products work better for you); and General Reference Materials. Please comment on this list! -- What have I overlooked?

2) The problem with such systems is that, without constant maintenance, they get out of hand in a hurry. My theory is that a (xls format) spreadsheet would provide an index for such a system that is easily downloaded from the forum and searched to find the file you want and provide a download link to it. I would provide a (xls format) spreadsheet submission form to get the information from the submitter that would be copied into the master index.
2A) I ought to have at least one back-up coordinator on this project in case I step into an oncoming bus or something similar. Is there another victim, er, I mean volunteer for this abuse?

3) Building these kinds of utilities takes a lot of effort. I am working on an update to my (UN) Socket Head screws library. Just for (inch) Socket Head Cap Screws there are nearly 3000 individual AD_PRT files. Then there is the index system that provides simple access, design application information, and a (user-controllable) differentiation between Readily Available, Special Order Available, Production Lot Order Only, and Not Tooled for Production availability information. While I do not (and never have) demanded payment for such work, encouragement is always nice. My theory here is that somebody finding something like this to be useful and a time saver ought to buy me a beer or even buy me a pizza and a beer (or social equivalent) for my assistance. I want to encourage this practice within the files area/library we build! To that end, the master index should provide access to (say) PayPal for such remuneration. Nobody is going to get rich off of this, but little rewards will, hopefully, contribute the our overall productivity gains.

4) If I am going to make this effort, I want it to be deliberate and well thought-out. Your feedback and thoughts will help get us organized to be useful!

 

[dammerel]

Hi Lew
Great idea, have you seen the Sketch up 3d warehouse?
It works perfectly, you can download directly to your model

Andrew

 

[H-L-Smith]

That's a great idea, Lew. I assume you are still thinking of GrabCAD as the repository?

You list includes everything I can think of at the moment. One thing that comes to mind as a search tool is maybe to have a variable length field (comma or semi-colon separated?) in the XLS file where a contributor can indicate which field(s) might use their submission. Maybe put in phrases like "aerospace", "mechanical design", "machine design", for example? That's not a real mature thought and maybe GrabCAD has something similar already. I don't use GrabCAD that often.

Just as another idea, it might be nice to have a peer review group who can look at your intended contribution prior to upload and make sure it is complete and well behaved?

Regards,

Lonnie

 

[Lew_Merrick]

Andrew & Lonnie,

I am thinking of an independent storage area for the files. The index spreadsheet would be maintained here to provide access. If my category breakdown is complete (though I hope to see some discussion of that), then there would be a worksheet for each category. The worksheet would have keywords intended for later database construction and informational text about each file -- and a link to download the specific file. Thus, you could download the index spreadsheet from the forum here, peruse the files at your leisure, and grab the files appropriate to your needs.

I uploaded quite a few libraries to GrabCAD over the years. The overall index at GrabCAD has reached the point where people are regularly e-mailing me saying that they cannot find the files. I can e-mail them a link to the page from which they can download the file, but (A) they have to join and be logged into GrabCAD for that to work well and (B) I am afraid that they are going to pull a ScribD on me and assert copyright over everything posted on their site. (Which is why I deleted everything I had posted over at ScribD earlier this year.) Having been "bitten" in this fashion, I am somewhat "shy" over allowing a 3rd party control over such things.

My hope is that we will get this started and 3DS will decide to host such a files area. If we get this going in a dynamic manner, it will take about a half-day's work each week to oversee and maintain such a file's area. At one level, I would like to see 3DS assign somebody to be the librarian. At another level, I would like to see this work performed by users to assure that it is somewhat independent from 3DS. The real issue that will create the most work on this is to "vet" each file to provide reasonable surety that copyrights are not being violated by files being posted to our library. Each submitter will have to assert that (A) this work is their own and that they have the right to distribute it and (B) that any additional information being included is either public domain or authorized by the copyright holder. From a liability standpoint, a user's group gets a bit more leeway in case of intellectual property issues than a major corporation -- which probably defines how this will need to operate in the long term.

This is the way I am thinking. (1) At a minimum, I need somebody to "backstop" me in case of tragedy. (2) We need to discuss this in fair detail to be sure that it is well thought out and useful (i.e. deliberate). I was the librarian for Generic CADD back in the days of FidoNet, so I have a fair idea as to the level of effort required to keep such a system functioning well and usefully. It is something that I believe we need.

 

[Alexander]

Great idea Lew,
Again I can't add anything else to your list.
One thing I would like to add is that you are a true asset to GM, this forum and the community, I always read your posts with great interest. We are very lucky to have you IMHO !

 

[H-L-Smith]

As the dust settles from the merger of Alibre into Geomagic, let's hope some resources will free up for the purpose of supporting these forums and the existing GM Design customers base. GM should be happy to support your efforts, Lew. It will enhance their product's utility and value.

Cheers,

 

[MikeHenry]

Perhaps this endeavor should be added to the official GeoMagic Design feedback site - it can be voted on there to document how important this is to GM users.

http://feedback.alibre.com/forums/16127 ... uggestions

Mike

 

[DavidJ]

I would comment that if such a facility were to be set up using a modern file management system where metadata can be tagged directly to files and used for sorting/finding/organising, utility would be enhanced and the effort to maintain it all could be reduced. Submission and approval of new items could be partly automated using a 'workflow'.

Using spreadsheets to index files is quite time consuming and it's all too easy to make errors.

I'm confident M-Files could tackle this - (web access would not require Vault enabled versions of Geomagic Design). 3DS's own TeamPlatform might also be capable of handling this - though I'm less sure of its capabilities. Maybe a provider of a suitable system could even be persuaded to provide the platform and storage space as a 'free taster' to promote their product to a wider audience. Otherwise somebody has to pay the bills.

Lew's concern about hosts changing terms & conditions or claiming copyright is understandable - this would need to be considered.

For technical reasons it would be much easier to set up such a system if each user had an account.

 

[H-L-Smith]

@DavidJ

I'm not sure where these forums are hosted. Is it through the GM Design website? If so, might there possible be access to some kind of M-Files server in the background through these forums? That might solve the users/accounts/technology problem in one go. If M-Files (Vault) were used, that too would be a + for the product as well.

I'm not sure we would satisfy Lew's concerns about ownership and continued access for all. However, if it was possible to back up the Vault files onto some other server on the Internet (Dropbox or similar), and it was done on a regular, scheduled basis, perhaps that would do it?

Cheers,

 

[Lew_Merrick]

David -- Having seen major data loss through Vault/M-Files systems, I am not that thrilled about the reconstruction potential.

All -- If you remember here a month or more ago, we were getting massive lists of junk sales pitches being placed in the forum as messages. An open files area is subject to the same kind of crap attack. That is one reason that I want to see every file being vetted before it is released for download. This requires a librarian (and at least one spare) who will spend the time to make sure everything in the upload is: (A) appropriate, (B) functional, and (C) documented to a standard. The librarian will: (A) delete inappropriate submissions, (B) update the index and place complete submissions for download, or (C) bounce submissions back to the author for more data or polishing.

As an example, my latest (i.e. still being vetted) library of UN Socket Head Cap Screw's READ-ME.txt reads:

History: Socket Head Cap Screws are strong, versatile screws developed originally for WWI usage. In their original incarnation, they were sized ranging a length equal to the major diameter out to a nominal maximum length. Lengths between 1/16th inch and 5/8ths inch increment by 1/16th of an inch. Lengths greater than 5/8ths inch to 1-3/4s inch increment by 1/8th of an inch. Lengths greater than 1-3/4s inch through 8 inches increment by 1/4 of an inch. Lengths greater than 8 inches increment by 1/2 inch. That was the way it was. Manufacturers have eliminated many standard lengths from production.

Installation: The ZIP distribution file contains this spreadsheet (in LibreOfice Calc and Microsoft Excel formats) and directories of UN/inch-sizes of Alloy Steel SHCS and Stainless Steel SHCS. Extract and place these directories (folders) in your standards\fasteners organizational path. Extract and locate the appropriate spreadsheet index file wherever you locate such utilities. Be sure to update the file paths to the two directories as stated above. The ZIP folders contain all diameter/pitch X length Socket Head Cap Screw parts defined by the appropriate standard -- plus some readily available non-standard sizes. The index spreadsheet provides access to the part files and allows the user to customize their choices into: readily available/off-the-shelf, available by special order, available in lot production run only, or not available criteria.

Copyright: I claim copyright on this work. This means copy it right! My work in this has been (A) to create the nearly 3000 individual SHCS part files, (B) sorting through the availability of various size/length combinations and loading that information into the index sheets, and (C) organize this information into the spreadsheet index/data management system. This has been no small effort and I made it! Please respect that effort and insure that credit for this effort remains with me. Begware statement: If you find this system useful to you, figure out what you would “reward” me with were we neighbors and send me funds equivalent to the buy your helper a beer reward through PayPal. A good beer in my area currently (2013) runs about $5 (US). Were you to send me $10, that would be $0.0034/part model. You decide what, if any, you would reward a friend for a utility such as this. The other way to “reward” me would be to build and share similar libraries. You can see other of my libraries posted here which will, hopefully, give you ideas as to how to extend this type of utility.

This type of information is easily embedded into an index spreadsheet. It provides more information than most people would need to decide whether or not to download this library. Add in some index data (say: screws, fasteners, inch, socket head screws, etc.), version application, and file information -- and it should be clear to all what this library contains and whether or not it will be useful to you.

NOTE: My own personal view is that we should encourage rewarding of those who make our lives easier. My personal hot-button on this is that I created a rather extensive set of (2D) component blocks of AISC structural steel shapes back in the 1980's and discovered that several pirates had stolen my geometry and were selling my work to others (for $400 a pop) and claiming it as their own. This is the basis for both my copyright and begware statements. It's not really about the money, it is more about the building of community!

 

[Lew_Merrick]

Let me reiterate, I need a back-up person to volunteer for this insanity before I commit.

Who else is willing to put in the effort here?

 

[nichterlein]

Hello Lew,
I have seen some of your work and i find it interesting.
I am a mechanical Engineer and have worked a lot with data modelling using several types of databases.
For the company i work, i have been creating a excel based report system, using several templates depending the norm we are using. When People from our company are in field they write the data in excel and after that when they are in main office they put the data in a intranet.
I have quite lot experience manipulating EXCEL for writing data on them, but for handle, instead of using procedural languages you can use SQL
I am able to help you creating a data manipulation template in excel. However i belieb it is better to have a WWW based solution using Database and a script language like php. If you need excel you can export it to a excel File whenever you want.
I dont know if this can help achieving what you want.
maybe we can talk further or i can show some remote session of my work and see if it helps to your purpose.
i should make it at home after work

 

[Lew_Merrick]

Nichterlein (and others),

If anybody wishes to build a custom website, I would not object. The question in (what's left of) my mind is portability. I posted technical articles on ScribD for several years and had to remove them suddenly when ScribD changed hands and the new owners asserted copyright on everything posted there. This is not the first time such a thing has happened to me over the years. If we are making this a user based operation, then cost must be kept to zero (other than sweat) to avoid trying to charge for and collect dues. Thus, my base assumption is that we need to store information somewhere that is free to use.

There are quite a few free services that allow you to store files and provide download links to them. The typical system of this type offers somewhere between 2 GB and 5 GB of such space. The basis from which I am working are those utilities that I have in hand. Uncompressed, they amount to a bit more than 4.5 GB on my working hard drive. Put into ZIP (the most common) compressed format, they are likely to run something more than 2GB of space. Add in a few contributors and extensions of concept and we would be looking at a relatively large volume of data.

We could do this with a spreadsheet index & description set fairly easily. This master index would likely run somewhere in the 500 kB range to download (meaning we could store it here in this forum). The fact that the files themselves could be sown-broadcast across multiple websites would not be an issue. If you find a utility (etc.) that interests you, click on the link and download it. If we have to move things around to make everything fit, the links in the spreadsheet change.

This is the attempt at logic behind my suggestion.

Who would be willing to be the back-up librarian?

 

[nichterlein]

Hi Lew
Well .. i tried to help, i find interesting what you are trying to do
i find excel particullary interesting for data manipulation (insert update records etc) but is not good for data handling like a database does. For simplifying the operation it was meant the website (anybody could access to it.) and using a language like php or others help to calculate or derivate information.
i don't know exactly the data modell you have in mind if you have a litle example i can see (must not be a big file ..) i could figur out what you mean.
anyway if i can help you let me know.
My motherlanguage is spanish and i have build catogues in several languages.