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Greg spills the beans

MagneO

Member


Hello!

Interesting to see that Alibre love that all the other vendors ignore the around $1000 marked.

Alibre loves it so much that they have increased their price to $2000!

Best Regards,

MagneO
 

MilesH

Alibre Super User


The base product is still less than $1000....

The increase when Motion was added to Expert seemed reasonable, and in future you'll get 3D Acrobat thrown in, as well....

Xpress is free, so that puts $1000 right in the middle of the price range :)
 

dmckee101

Alibre Super User


I use Modelpress as a 3D publisher and viewer with AD Pro and am very satisfied. Using one of my typical joystick assemblies a ModelPress export is 1.27 MB vs. a chunky 7.35 MB for the PDF 3D export. Maybe there is a lack of functionality in the Pro edition (but supposedly not) I have been unable to spin a 3D PDF like I can with ModelPress. Hopefully Alibre won't abandon ModelPress!
 

caduser1

Senior Member


In fact, Alibre now doesn't plan to optimize its software for very large assemblies, nor worry about advanced surfacing.

I hope this is NOT the plan!!!!! :shock:
I need large assembly capabilities (1000+ parts)!!!!
Alibre, don't let me down! :wink:
 

MilesH

Alibre Super User


Yes, this caught my attention. Maybe "optimize" refers to something specific, like partial loading...?
 

gregmilliken

Senior Member


Don't worry, we're optimizing. We're just not going to plunge a lot of resources into pursuing "very large" assemblies; 1,000+ parts is not what I consider "very large," large maybe, but not "very large."

Granted even this is far larger than those with which most users typically work. I believe that goes for most users of any CAD system, not just Alibre Design, however we feel the ability to work productively with assemblies of 1,000+ parts will reasonably capture the vast majority of the market.

Does anyone have any quantitative data that would refute or support my assertion above?

-Greg
 

warburton1

Senior Member


What should we consider a very large assembly to be?

I have a test rig that I am working on that has over 16000 bolts in it, it sounds as though I should consider against porting this into Alibre? :) Not that I would want to place all 16000 bolts in it (just think of all the constraints :shock: ).

Joking aside and as a benchmark, consistently the assemblies that I have to work with are around the 1000+ part mark. However, I cannot consider myself a typical user (although not wanting to overstate myself) since I am involved in adding to the data of a finished product, that is building test equipment around an already designed component or structure. Still I hope support for 1000+ parts doesn't dip too far.

An even bigger one for me though is the lack of "worry about advanced surfacing". I am not suggesting Alibre has to delve into the field, however I would like to see perhaps better integration with other products in this field (Especially Rhino :) )
 

linuxguy

Senior Member
Re:

indesign said:
I just wonder what the Adobe 3D will cost those of us at the Expert level already?

I am in the process of buying Alibre Design Expert now, so I called Alibre as soon as I got the e-mail about the new bundle. I would have to pay $750.00 outright in order to get Adobe Acrobat to add to my Alibre Design Expert package, and it can not be added to any monthly pay plan because of the royalties Alibre has to pay to Adobe. It is an all at once payment.

8-Dale
 

MilesH

Alibre Super User
Re:

warburton1 said:
An even bigger one for me though is the lack of "worry about advanced surfacing". I am not suggesting Alibre has to delve into the field, however I would like to see perhaps better integration with other products in this field (Especially Rhino :) )

Yes, tight integration with Rhino/FreeDimension would be great.
 

MilesH

Alibre Super User
Re:

gregmilliken said:
Don't worry, we're optimizing. We're just not going to plunge a lot of resources into pursuing "very large" assemblies; 1,000+ parts is not what I consider "very large," large maybe, but not "very large."

Granted even this is far larger than those with which most users typically work. I believe that goes for most users of any CAD system, not just Alibre Design, however we feel the ability to work productively with assemblies of 1,000+ parts will reasonably capture the vast majority of the market.

Does anyone have any quantitative data that would refute or support my assertion above?

-Greg

My wish would be for assemblies of up to 5000 parts (including duplicates) to be workable.
 

leeave96

Senior Member


Greg,

My feeling is - is that once you put together an assembly, there might be a lot of parts, but once you start adding fasteners, things really grow and performance goes slooooow.

I haven't encountered an Alibre assy with 1000 parts, including fastners, but in my day job, large sheet metal enclosed assy's cause the part count to get really large.

Thanks!
Bill
 

scarr

Senior Member
Large Assemblies

I've worked in automotive, well actually trucks, for the last seventeen years, with various CAD systems, now Catia V5, and there are times when it is possible to put together assemblies of 1000+ parts, although this is not the norm. Assemblies this large will bog down any CAD application, including V5, and Pro-E due mainly to memory limits both in the OS and video areas (this is why 64 bit computing is getting to be so attractive). The way V5 handles such things is to bring in all the parts in an assembly in a very 'light' visulization mode, and then if you need to work on a part you can change it to 'design' mode , which loads all the heavy' model data. Alibre touches on this with the Display Acceleration ' functionality, and perhaps all that is required is to take that a step further.
In most cases it is not necessary to load all the model data in an assembly at the same time because no one ever works on all of it simultaneously.
 

MilesH

Alibre Super User


If you want an example, the model that I entered for the design contest has nearly 1000 parts. I'm not sure I would describe that as a large assembly...

How about?
Small assembly = 1 - 100 parts
Medium assembly = 100 - 1000 parts
Large assembly = 1000 - 10,000 parts
Very large assembly = 10,000 - 100,000 parts

Of course, the number of parts is only part of the story....
 

MikeB

Member
1000+ assemblies

I routinely work with 1000+ part assemblies and as far as the modeling goes Alibre is fine. The problem I have is when it comes time to turn them into drawings. In drawings these assemblies become almost unworkable. Is there anything being done to optimize the drawing portion of Alibre? IMO, that is what is holding Alibre back. Other enhancements like .pdf etc. are nice but can be produced in other ways for free.

The drawing portion of Alibre is just killing me. Yes, Alibre is less expensive (although the price seems to be creeping up) but it takes me at least 5 times as long to do drawings as in some other packages. Because of this the cost of "ownership" goes up in a hurry. I don't mean to sound critical, but is any help on the horizon? Our company bought a couple of seats of Alibre and a couple of seats of a product costing several thousand dollars more (as in about $6,000). I am sorry to report that the more expensive one has all but won out because it is less expensive in the long run.

Please don't take this as being negative, I think Alibre is trying to do a good thing. Please take this as criticism that is constructive as that is my intention. I really want Alibre to suceed!
 

MikeB

Member


Greg,
I was thinking about this a bit more and wanted to put in my $.02 worth. (which is probably what it is worth! :) ). I think the new strategy has a bit of a disconnect for me. You state that you have decided to compete with the LT's of the world yet it seems most of the focus is on "bells and whistles" that the big boys have, i.e. motion and pdf 3D. (Not coincidentally, these bells and whistles are what make the big boys so expensive.)

To me, these types of things are "neat toys" and can be impressive if you are doing a presentation for a client. In reality, I think they end up being in that catagory of 80% of the functions that you rarely use. I can do a pretty decent client presentation with just a print of the model, which is what most of us probably do. I think most are probably like me and don't have time to do a bunch of photorendering when the end product is not that much more impressive than a simple screen print.

I don't want to presume to speak for others, but I suspect that most users are interested in making money by cranking out paper drawings or solid models that can be sent to a machinist/fabricator to build things as quickly as possible.

I think a better strategy might be to get back to the original strategy. That being to provide a powerful solid modeling program that is easy to use and doesn't have all of the bells and whistles that you would rarely if ever use so that it can be offered at about the same price as Microsoft office.

I think if you put all of your resources into making the drawing portion of Alibre work (which has always been its achilles heal) and holding the line on price you would have the world beating a path to your door. Brand "X" loads models "lightweight" in drawing mode (I don't really know what that means or how it works because the drawings look the same to me) and huge asssemblies load in nothing flat. I recently did an entire line layout in 3D that contained about 12 different machines, platforms, columns, hoists, etc. in brand "x" and the drawing loads in a couple of minutes. One of the machines in the line is done in Alibre and the assembly drawing for it alone takes about one hour to load.

I could be wrong, but I think if you took a poll whether people wanted fast drawings or pdf and motion I think almost to a person the fast drawings would win out.

Anyway, I hope this is taken in the spirit with which it is offered, I really want to help. I can't stand the meglo-cad companies because they seem to be an endless hole you pour money down. For example, brand x doesn't let me use my seat at work and on my laptop at home without buying another seat like Alibre does. You guys have about 99% down pat. If you could just speed those drawings up you would have my undying love and admiration! (Ok, that may be a bit dramatic. LOL!)
 

gregmilliken

Senior Member


Hi Mike,

Thanks very much for the feedback, it is very much appreciated.

The 2D drawings message has been heard, and we had actually prioritized it and initiated a project on it before the last release. I can't stress enough the importance we are placing on this. The effort we are undertaking is extensive so unfortunately we were not able to get it into this release. My hope is that V10 meets your expectations.

I also hear what you are saying about Motion and 3D PDF, but as you might guess I have a different opinion on whether these are just bells and whistles. Both have very broad implications beyond just the initial functionality they offer. Beyond just motion simulation, Alibre Motion is a fully integrated application using our API. This opens up Alibre Design as a platform for numerous types of applications. Granted motion simulation does not apply to every design, but we had to choose some vehicle to drive the API and this technology and an associated partnership offered us a great opportunity to do so. As for 3D PDF, there are some things coming here that are going to change the playing field in CAD related to interoperability as well as publishing, sharing and collaborating with others. We're not pursuing a niche on this one. Time will tell if we are prioritizing correctly, but I am convinced we are.

I appreciate that the strategic impact of these efforts do not change the necessity to deliver on the original and still primary strategy of offering what everyone needs at a fraction fo the cost. Making money by efficiently cranking out designs and drawings is paramount.

I will wrap up by saying it is always a challenge to have to make the decision to hold off on something you know is very significant to get the right solution in place, but I think we made the right decision in the case of our 2D drawing project. In other words, to get it done right rather than band-aid it over a few releases ending up with something not as good in the long run. Hopefully when you have V10 in hand, with the 2D drawing improvements and a variety of other exciting enhancements we'll have earned that undying love and admiration.

-Greg
 
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