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How to "shrink" file size?

scotte

Senior Member
I have tried to open an engine assembly but it's too large to manipulate. I do not need to edit this, only design around it.
Is it possible to minimize the file size or turn it into a shell rather than a solid? I have 4 gig of ram and a AMD 64x2 processor.
Any ideas?

Thanks, Scott E
 

mshideler

Senior Member
is the assembly file and associated part files native Alibre, from some other package, or a neutral format like step, iges, etc?
 

HaroldL

Alibre Super User
Give this a try: Open the engine assembly file in Alibre then export it as a .sat file. You can then import the resulting file into your assembly.

Compare the file size of the original assembly to the .sat file.
 

scotte

Senior Member
The first engine was a stp file of 180Mb which imported to an Alibre file of 874Mb. This took hours. The second engine stp file is 438Mb and the import was not successful.
Is this too much for Alibre? The vendor who sent these files use SW. Is there that much difference between the softwares? The irony is that I waited about 6 weeks for these
parts and I can't use them. I'm going to try making it a prt instead of an asm.

Thanks for any help,
Scott E
 

mshideler

Senior Member
since you have Alibre you can also try having him send you the native SolidWorks parts and assembly files and try opening them natively.

Did he build the whole thing, including all the parts in native SW format, or is the model coming from other sources that was assembled in SW for the assembly version that you need?

Reason I ask that last one is the files may have errors in the geometry before they are even sent to you which might cause issues on translating it back into alibre.

Many times, working with SW for 10 years, did I see people's models with errors in the feature tree that they did not clean up. God only knows if they caused issues down the road.

mshideler
 

sigseven

Senior Member
What value are you using for the Curve Smoothness setting in those files? If you go to File->Properties, it is in the Display tab with a field labeled "Minimal Circular Facets." The higher this value is, the smoother cylinders, circular edges and such will appear. However, this increase in appearance comes at the cost of performance, as the complexity of the display "mesh" for the part is increased.

You see the size of the file increase correspondingly as well, because Alibre stores the mesh in the file. This is done to allow files to open more quickly at the expense of file size.

When working with large files, it would probably help to turn it down, at least temporarily. When you are finished working on the file, you can turn it back up at the end to get a pretty picture if need be.

Since in this case you are designing around a finished assembly, I would also recommend following Harold's suggestion of merging the assembly into a single part as a SAT file.
 

bigseb

Alibre Super User
Question: have you only had this problem with this particular file, or does this happened before? The reason why I ask is that I've heard in the past of people having trouble running CAD software on AMD chips. Don't know why this is and they weren't using Alibre but if you're having this problem before then it might be your chip.

If that isn't the case then I agree with mshideler that it is most likely an import/export error (I have encountered that too in the past). Only thing I can think of is import the file and save as something native to Alibre and then work on it.
 

DavidJ

Administrator
Staff member
bigseb said:
I've heard in the past of people having trouble running CAD software on AMD chips.

I don't think that is likely to be an issue - All current PCs on which I run Alibre have AMD processors - generally I have very few problems with Alibre. I'm no expert though, and stranger things have happened...
 

bigseb

Alibre Super User
DavidJ said:
bigseb said:
I've heard in the past of people having trouble running CAD software on AMD chips.

I don't think that is likely to be an issue - All current PCs on which I run Alibre have AMD processors - generally I have very few problems with Alibre. I'm no expert though, and stranger things have happened...

Yeah its weird, but there you go. Personally I tend to agree with mshideler but if it is an ongoing problem then it won't hurt to look into other reasons and the chip could be it.

Its been a long time since I last heard anything about problems running CAD on AMD chips, perhaps its no a longer an issue. Back then the problematic software was either Solidworks or Solidedge, I forget which. Bearing in mind that AMD chips also run on their own motherboards it may be possible that the problem may lie there too. Who knows. I'm an Intel man myself...
 

scotte

Senior Member
Hello All,
I've tried importing as stp, igs and solidworks. igs and stp have come in after hours of 'thinking'. SW won't. I saved the stp as Alibre and the ~220Mb stp became ~850Mb Alibre. I reduced curve smoothness to 9 and things seem to function ok till I try to save and Alibre crashes. Then it's 4 more hours to import. Are these files just too big for Alibre?
Thanks for the ideas. More please.
Scott E
 

HaroldL

Alibre Super User
Just out of curiosity, does the engine model you received contain all the internal parts, crank, pistons, rods, etc? If all you need is the external reference of the engine why import all the internals? :?

I would see it your supplier could give you just the "outside" parts for you to work with. Removing all the internal parts could reduce the file size significantly.
 

scotte

Senior Member
Harold,
I don't think the internals are included. My next attempt is to start the import process again and if it loads I will begin deleting all the nuts, bolts, wires, etc and get a save before it crashes.
Scott E
 

mshideler

Senior Member
with as complex as computers are along with software that runs on them, it just might be (you might think this is a cop out) something minor to your PC and maybe another alibre user would be able to open the files.

Back to SW again, there were times when one of us in our engineer cube farm could not open a specific file. The solution was to hang your head into the next guy's office and ask him to open it and resave it. Naturally he would open the file right up, save it out, spread some pixie dust around....wah lah! It would then work.

We tried to keep all our engineering systems as close as possible in specifications, roll up our service packs at the same time, etc. so I have no idea why this would happen but it did.

Sometimes on importing files would have the same issues. It was very strange.

So, you have to add "Act of God" to your list of possible causes.

Side note - the reason that the file would grow so large when you open it or import it (not just Alibre) is the model file is basically a database file. Open a database file, and the file size grows even if you do nothing to it. Work it a little bit and the file can grow quickly into a monster. It seems as though, years ago in the caves of pogrammers, a technique was used then and carried forward to today that makes DB files inefficient. It might be Windows, or the DB program used is making little temporary notes or search reference data points for speed, but the programs never seem to clean them up automatically when you are done with them. Why do you think Access had a user run tool to compact and clean up the database files.

SW has crap like that too. One thing that can work in SW was to do a 'save as'. This, for some reason, would cause the model database file to be flushed of garbage and the file would be smaller.

Also, when sending large models around, if there was a lot of geometry (faces, points, edges, or even features) what we would do is extrude a bounding box around all the model geometry as the very last feature and save the file out. That would make a HUGE difference as program would apparently flush out more of the DB file that was just there for displaying the model. Last trick that sometimes would work was to create a new configuration specifically for moving files over the internet, and suppress all the geometry within the model, save out, you now have a much small file (again I assume display data is not needing to be stored when the file is featureless in the current configuration).

Doesn't really help you here I don't think, but the problem is not Alibre, its more or less across the board with many types of files so at this point I assume it is the way that Microsoft expects or requires Windows Certified programs to do things. Open a Word file sometime, do nothing to it, save it back out and it will be larger.

mshideler
 

scotte

Senior Member
Wow, thanks everyone. I got the smaller engine loaded, cleaned-up, and saved. Unfortunately the intake manifold has some kind of error and won't display. This was a 3.5 hour process, mostly waiting watching the little circle spin. I'm trying the larger engine now. I'd love to let you guys give this a spin but Ford may not appreciate it. This has left me a bit intimidated about building big models.
Thanks, Scott E
 

mshideler

Senior Member
I think it is in how the parts within an assembly is made.

I mean, look at the gallery. There are some high part number assemblies in there too.

http://www.alibre.com/success/gallery.asp

Just make sure though when you model fasteners that if you love to show modeled threads, make a configuration that does not show threads. Multiple parts with threads on them can choke some assemblies. Maybe only show the modeled threads on a 2D drawing and use the non-threaded for assemblies.

We had to do that after we sent 3D data and 2D drawing files to an offshore supplier. Clearly they did not use the drawings to check parts as the drawings had all the thread specifications for screws, bolts, and nuts but when the sample run arrived in the states for our QC and test build....oi. We could figure out for the longest time why we had different sizes of what looked like nails with slotted heads and phillips heads. When we finally mic'd one out with the trusty calipers we figured out that all the nails were screws and bolts with no threads. Lesson learned is that if they have 3D data and 2D drawings they will most likely only use 3D data to check parts, which is strange. I mean we never had to model a MoldTek texture on plastic parts, they always got that right....
 

scotte

Senior Member
I would like to uplaod these files, but Ford would probably not like it. I started importing the larger stp file, ~400Mb, Fri 9:00pm and on Sat 8:00am its still working. Status bar is 75%.
Also, The top bar on the on the display reads "Alibre Design Expert (Not Responding)". This "not responding" shows up briefly when I open or save a file and then all seems well. Problem is
I don't know if or when Alibre is actually "not responding".
Scott E
 

mshideler

Senior Member
I suppose the other issue could be that the files are create on high end workstations running Catia or some other higher end software.

Alibre does many things, but a company like Ford probably spends $15,000 per designer for CAD, let alone the workstation (or server farm) and other design tools that they may use day to day.

This could just be a case of a good tool being used for the wrong job.
 
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