Importing ACAD dwg practically
- Thread starter hfq
- Start date
My gut feeling is that Alibre might not be the right tool for the job. Alibre's strength is low-cost 3-D parametric solid modeling, not creating 2-D schematics. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, but until then I'd probably have to recommend you stick with AutoCAD for your schematics (as much as it pains me to do so!).
Jack Maiese
Member
Could you define the type of Acad "Electrical Drawings" that you are trying to import into Alibre? Are these mechanical layouts (panels, enclosures...etc) or schematics? There is an excellent tutorial in Alibre on importing and using Acad 2D drawings as sketch profiles that can be used to generate Alibre parts.
Regards,
Jack Maiese
Additional details
We're trying to standardize on one drawing package. We already use Alibre for solids modelling but would like to retire ACAD use altogether if possible. Agreed that using Alibre to draw schematics and panel layouts is not quite Alibre's intended purpose but it may beat maintaining multiple ACAD seat licenses.
We're trying to standardize on one drawing package. We already use Alibre for solids modelling but would like to retire ACAD use altogether if possible. Agreed that using Alibre to draw schematics and panel layouts is not quite Alibre's intended purpose but it may beat maintaining multiple ACAD seat licenses.
Hi Harry,
As one of the drafter/designers in my group likes to say, "I can smell what you're stepping in", because we are going through the same thing. Our current plan is to keep the ACAD licenses around, but cease the maintenance contracts. Eventually, we will likely also decide to drop ACAD altogether -- and at that point I am expecting that we will use Visio or some similar package for our electrical schematics, wiring diagrams, and other strictly-2D types of drawings.
If you want to stop using ACAD sooner rather than later, you might check out Visio. It can read and write .dwg files and is amazingly flexible and fast for creating schematics and wiring diagrams (among things), with a very short learning curve (<1hr). <steps down off soap box as Microsoft bashers begin to throw rotten fruit>
Oh, I should probably note that we are able to function effectively while using multiple drawing-creation packages because we "publish" all engineering drawings in pdf format. Therefore, the end user (our factory and our customers) doesn't really care how they were created.
Good luck with your transition!
Regards,
Greg
Schematics
If you have schematics to create you should use a "true" schematic design package to create them. With it you can also get the ability to export a net list to check the schematic against PCB. Also you get some prebuilt schematic shapes or you can create custom ones as well. Much easier than AUTOCAD for sure.
If you have schematics to create you should use a "true" schematic design package to create them. With it you can also get the ability to export a net list to check the schematic against PCB. Also you get some prebuilt schematic shapes or you can create custom ones as well. Much easier than AUTOCAD for sure.
Yeah, schematic capture through your design software is definitely the way to go if you're designing a pcb, but many folks also need to draw schematics for electrical systems and such. And either way, you need to give the drawing the same look and feel of your other production drawings. Thus, the most effective tool is often a good 2-D drawing package with lots of built-in symbols and related functionality.
Regards,
Greg
Cameraman,
I was about to suggest Visio (the Professional version) for schematics as well, though I've only used it for simple electrical schematics. One advantage is that it is pretty easy to generate your own set of symbols or templates.
Microsoft has a trial version (185 MB!!) available from this page:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/visio/p ... fault.mspx
Another option might be Corel Designer:
http://www.corel.com/servlet/Satellite? ... 7022702469
I'm not sure but this Corel Designer might have had it's roots in Micrografx Designer. As corporate entities, I believe that Micrografx and Alibre share a cmmon founder.
Mike
Does anybody know where I can find the tutorial referenced below. I'm wanting to import a DXF file that contains PCB artwork and place it in an assembly.
Thanks,
Lou
"Could you define the type of Acad "Electrical Drawings" that you are trying to import into Alibre? Are these mechanical layouts (panels, enclosures...etc) or schematics? There is an excellent tutorial in Alibre on importing and using Acad 2D drawings as sketch profiles that can be used to generate Alibre parts.
Regards,
Jack Maiese"
acad seats 2D maintenance
Something of interest -
This may or may not be entirely appropriate, but there is a free to use for commercial purposes 2D drafting software that is identical to ACAD and fully compatible.
to get the free LT version go here
http://www.progecad.com/
I've been using it in place of ACAD LT, and haven't found any deficiencies.
If you need full blown ACAD (lsp, c++, vba) you can buy a version (for 1/10th of ACAD's price) that does all this too.
to look at the other stuff, go here
http://www.progesoft.com
I'm not involved w/ them in any way, and found them by accident when looking for open source (which I don't believe this is) drafting software for a friend to learn on.
Something of interest -
This may or may not be entirely appropriate, but there is a free to use for commercial purposes 2D drafting software that is identical to ACAD and fully compatible.
to get the free LT version go here
http://www.progecad.com/
I've been using it in place of ACAD LT, and haven't found any deficiencies.
If you need full blown ACAD (lsp, c++, vba) you can buy a version (for 1/10th of ACAD's price) that does all this too.
to look at the other stuff, go here
http://www.progesoft.com
I'm not involved w/ them in any way, and found them by accident when looking for open source (which I don't believe this is) drafting software for a friend to learn on.
open source (free) replacement for visio
I was rereading the thread, and thought I'd add this too.
Visio is around 5-600 $US. There is an open source office suite called OpenOffice. It's free, has a tool that has similar functionality to Visio (It's called Draw).
They've recently added a database front end that works similar to access. It'll even read access databases.
They are up to version 2.0. I've had it since 1.4. Again, it's completely free and for commercial use.
http://www.openoffice.org/
I was rereading the thread, and thought I'd add this too.
Visio is around 5-600 $US. There is an open source office suite called OpenOffice. It's free, has a tool that has similar functionality to Visio (It's called Draw).
They've recently added a database front end that works similar to access. It'll even read access databases.
They are up to version 2.0. I've had it since 1.4. Again, it's completely free and for commercial use.
http://www.openoffice.org/
As one who's day job includes panel layouts and schematics, I can tell you that Alibre ain't going to cut it. Infact, I don't know if there really is a CAD package that can handle 3D solids and 2D anything as one unit. I have said for a long time and here too that if Alibre could add a 2D functionality for such things as schematics and basic layouts, that would be super. Back in the old days, UG could do both quite nicely.
I use Alibre for the 3D stuff and TurboCad for the 2D stuff.
My recommendation is to keep Acad and Alibre. If you must, let the subscription run out on the Acad, but at least you have a legal license.
Good luck,
Bill
Wouldnt it be great to do all that in 3D. Well to be able to see the wiring run throughout the panel and zoom in and out of all those parts. But then again it would get pretty tight.
I would suggest pcd or simular schematic software. The software designed to do the job. Alibre is releasing version 9 very soon and I was told it had 2D improvements. But even if Alibre had every 2D tool autocad had then is it still what you want to do electrical layout?
inherently 2d information
First off, there is nothing illegal about using a 3rd party tool to access and manipulate your own IP that you paid huge dollars to create. By that I mean, not just what you paid meglodesk for software, support, and training, but what you paid people in dollars for time in front of the tube creating and revising your drawings. The IP is what it's all really about, not the tool or the file format or the interface, although those things are nice.
Secondly, I have some experience w/ 3D software for routing various lines. Basically, it seems to aggrevate all the negatives of 3D CAD. It's very easy to generate a pretty picture of something that won't work. The highest end developers for the highest end packages have done huge amounts of work on this, and in my opinion have fallen well short. I doubt Alibre will do this sort of thing any time soon, as there is much lower hanging fruit.
Thirdly, some data is inherently 2 dimensional. There is nothing 3 dimensional about a wiring or hydraulic schematic. The schematic is defined as 2D symbols creating a simplified 2D representation of a system. This is probably the highest value density data that will be created about a product, and it is extremely important to get it right and manage it appropriately (try troubleshooting w/o it, or w/ a wrong version).
I believe the best course of action for Alibre would be to get in bed w/ a competent 2D tool and work out some snazzy integration, file management etc. If they wanted to do something novel, there would be plenty of opportunity down this path as there isn't anything that is good on the market for this purpose.
First off, there is nothing illegal about using a 3rd party tool to access and manipulate your own IP that you paid huge dollars to create. By that I mean, not just what you paid meglodesk for software, support, and training, but what you paid people in dollars for time in front of the tube creating and revising your drawings. The IP is what it's all really about, not the tool or the file format or the interface, although those things are nice.
Secondly, I have some experience w/ 3D software for routing various lines. Basically, it seems to aggrevate all the negatives of 3D CAD. It's very easy to generate a pretty picture of something that won't work. The highest end developers for the highest end packages have done huge amounts of work on this, and in my opinion have fallen well short. I doubt Alibre will do this sort of thing any time soon, as there is much lower hanging fruit.
Thirdly, some data is inherently 2 dimensional. There is nothing 3 dimensional about a wiring or hydraulic schematic. The schematic is defined as 2D symbols creating a simplified 2D representation of a system. This is probably the highest value density data that will be created about a product, and it is extremely important to get it right and manage it appropriately (try troubleshooting w/o it, or w/ a wrong version).
I believe the best course of action for Alibre would be to get in bed w/ a competent 2D tool and work out some snazzy integration, file management etc. If they wanted to do something novel, there would be plenty of opportunity down this path as there isn't anything that is good on the market for this purpose.
bscott.arc-tech.com
Member
As a suggestion for a Visio alternative that costs quite a bit less, you might check out SmartDraw. http://www.smartdraw.com It's not Visio, but it often gets the job done, and it's an order of magnitude cheaper.
Re: inherently 2d information
Assuming your wire bundle - travels most of the direction together - not needing breakouts - you would need some (Maybe 10 - 20) coordinate points with full 3D data points at X, Y, & Z - with which you would be able to create a 3D Spline with AD V8 or newer.
Then - you create a circle - or oval, or whatever shape your wire bundle will take - and sweep it down that 3D Spline, you would get a fairly decent full view of the bundles path from front to back of the vehicle, would you not? Now - If this is not the kind of thing you want to do - then just imagine the wire(s) as similar items to this bundle - this would still work!
If all that really is wanted is circuit schematics - other posts cover that quite well. Robert
cdub, just wondering about this - lets say wiring = wires in a pipe (for the sake of modeling symplicity, rather than a bundle of 20 wires), and you have to route them down the side of a car - below the carpet, out to the rear - for the hatchback wiper and washer, and the tail, turn, and backup lights.cdub said:
Assuming your wire bundle - travels most of the direction together - not needing breakouts - you would need some (Maybe 10 - 20) coordinate points with full 3D data points at X, Y, & Z - with which you would be able to create a 3D Spline with AD V8 or newer.
Then - you create a circle - or oval, or whatever shape your wire bundle will take - and sweep it down that 3D Spline, you would get a fairly decent full view of the bundles path from front to back of the vehicle, would you not? Now - If this is not the kind of thing you want to do - then just imagine the wire(s) as similar items to this bundle - this would still work!
If all that really is wanted is circuit schematics - other posts cover that quite well. Robert
wiring harnesses
Robert - Everything you posted is correct. You could shoot a circle or oval over a simple spline and get a representation of a wire harness. As you mentioned, you could ignore the presence of the smaller wires inside the bundle and model it this way.
The problems you get into are estimating the bundle diameter properly and the minimum bend radius of the bundle w/ it's sheathing in such a way that you don't draw something that can't be assembled. Further, if you make a change to your design/schematic that adds wires, your wire bundle model won't be parametrically tied to the schematic and won't update. It's not a huge deal for a few small, simple harnesses but can rapidly become a big deal later.
It is also a pain to define the points of the spline path. I've been working with sweeps on splines lately in Alibre, and I can't say that I'm particularly impressed. I know there's been some degree of operator error involved, but the software operation isn't exactly smooth either.
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see someone figure out a good way to do that sort of modelling, as it would make many peoples lives easier. All I was getting at was that I haven't seen it anywhere yet.
Robert - Everything you posted is correct. You could shoot a circle or oval over a simple spline and get a representation of a wire harness. As you mentioned, you could ignore the presence of the smaller wires inside the bundle and model it this way.
The problems you get into are estimating the bundle diameter properly and the minimum bend radius of the bundle w/ it's sheathing in such a way that you don't draw something that can't be assembled. Further, if you make a change to your design/schematic that adds wires, your wire bundle model won't be parametrically tied to the schematic and won't update. It's not a huge deal for a few small, simple harnesses but can rapidly become a big deal later.
It is also a pain to define the points of the spline path. I've been working with sweeps on splines lately in Alibre, and I can't say that I'm particularly impressed. I know there's been some degree of operator error involved, but the software operation isn't exactly smooth either.
Don't get me wrong, I'd LOVE to see someone figure out a good way to do that sort of modelling, as it would make many peoples lives easier. All I was getting at was that I haven't seen it anywhere yet.