InterDesign Relations should not mess up Constraints!

[NateLiquidGravity]

InterDesign Relations should not mess up Constraints! The InterDesign Relations are created when editing a part in the assembly and adding reference geometry (points, planes, axis for example) to another part in the assembly.
I can't express how much it angers me that InterDesign Relations screw up constraints. InterDesign Relations like that should be driven by constraints not driving constraints.

 

[multicaduser]

Somewhat new to AD, could you explain how InterDesign Relations screw up Constraints? One feature enhancement I'd like to see added to constraints is to have the option to automatically have the default planes constrain to each other.
tia

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

Attached is an example. All three coincident constraints are broken and no longer keep the Part B where intended to update to changes in Part A. Part A has been edited so the assembly shows the disconnect when you load it. If any InterDesign Relations are deleted then the design intent is lost and Part B is no longer dynamic to changes in Part A.

 

[DavidJ]

Nate - they are not 'broken' but are over-defined, that is there is some duplication/redundancy when all the constraints (including inter-design ones) are processed by the constraint manager.

I see why this happens from a mathematical perspective, but I too wish there wasn't any need for the software to get quite so grumpy about over-defined. In real life lots of our designs have over-constrained elements, it isn't a problem physically.

Even a different colour to indicate over constrained from more serious issues would be a big help. So you could see which issues were 'major' or 'minor'.

I know lots of users get confused by the idea of over-constrained.

 

[simonb65]

Even a different colour to indicate over constrained from more serious issues would be a big help. So you could see which issues were 'major' or 'minor'.

When your constraining assemblies, it would be useful if a list of the applied constraints was shown (i.e. in one place rather than having to trawl through the design explorer) when you get an 'over constrained' error, with an option against each constraint to delete/remove that constraint would go a long way in finding and solving hidden culprits sometimes.

 

[DavidJ]

Simon - what do you mean by 'in one place' - the DE already has both an 'all constraints' list and lists by constituent. What else is it that you are asking for?

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

They are broken constraints if they don't work and these don't work. Why they are broken is irrelevant. They shouldn't be.

 

[simonb65]

Simon - what do you mean by 'in one place' - the DE already has both an 'all constraints' list and lists by constituent. What else is it that you are asking for?

The information to be supplied with the error popup. i.e. Whilst the DE shows all constraints, it is sometimes useful to be represented directly, at the point of the error message, the information you need to resolve the problem without trawling through the DE. i.e. The constraint engine knows what the current constrains are that are conflicting, so just list them in the error dialog for the user to action rather than an error that says you have a problem, then let the user go find the information in the DE. i.e. sometimes over constrained can be because of an anchored part or inter-design constraint, these are not always obvious to see and in the case of anchored parts, these are not highlighted in the DE. The only highlight, is for constrains it can't apply, not the reason why.

 

[DavidJ]

Nate -

If I edit Part A - the planes/axis in part B update accordingly - that suggests to me that constraints still function. In what way do you see them as 'broken' or is that just the red colour in DE?


EDIT - just noticed that one of the co-incidents (3) clearly isn't - though supressing it doesn't necessarily help.

I can also get different behaviour when opening - sometimes 2 of the inter-design constraints show red, sometimes not ( and F5 can make the red inter-design constraint go 'healthy' ).

I don't know enough about how this all works to comment much further - there does appear to be some non-obvious limitation.

 

[DavidJ]

Nate - in case there is some weirdness specific to your file or you workflow, or some corruption that has occurred, can you outline what type of edits were made and when the issue showed up?

It's best if this can be reliably reproduced from scratch with new files - then Development have something concrete to investigate.

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

Those are new files. I can simplify it further.

 

[DavidJ]

Sorry if not clear - I meant for Development to create new files based on your experience, and re-create the issue from scratch repeatably.

Did the red constraints occur immediately upon creation, after an edit, or ..... ? if after an edit please explain what was changed

If any of the files are corrupted in any way - that can make diagnosis almost impossible. Not saying your files are corrupted - just experience of trying to reproduce some customer issues.