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Inventor versus Alibre

szimmer

Senior Member
Inventor versus Alibre

Our company is giving Inventor from Autodesk a closer look as a 3d program. Generally, we use AutoCAD 2008 and love it as a 2D program. 3D wise it is pretty weak but that is not why we bought it.

I love Alibre but it seems like Inventor seems a bit more mature as a software.

Anyone have any experience with Inventor? Would love to hear your experience and of course if people think Alibre is better, let me know why.

The only major disadvantage of Inventor is PRICE! It is very pricey compared to Alibre. But if it can get the job done quicker and better and with less headaches, the extra $$ would be worth it.

Look forward to some opinions on the subject.

Simon
 

Adam_N

Member


A few questions I have is what are you designing and how big of assemblies are you going to design?

Are you putting all the screws and hardware in ?
Surfaces?
Big exploded views?
Complex assemblies?
BOMs?

etc.
 

dudley

Member


Hello everyone. My first post. A little background. I have followed Alibre for about 2.5 or 3 years now (lurking here in the forums). I finally decided to purchase my own copy of Alibre Expert about 1.5 years ago. I use it for hobby and to keep myself educated in 3D modelling. Ocassionally, I use it to do quick models for ideas related to my job, but my current employer (about 65,000 employees worldwide) uses ProE wildfire 3. I used Inventor version 8 and then version 10 at my previous job (about 70,000 employees worldwide). I taught myself Inventor because our facility mainly used Autocad Mechanical Desktop, but Inventor was available to us so I started playing with it. My previous employer used ProE for a period of time before I started working there, but apparently it was not satisfactory in some way because they switched to Inventor.

Some observations and opinions (of a reasonably intelligent but non-expert person):

I have never thought highly of ProE. I completely recognize its power, but that power is so poorly implemented that I consider it intolerable software to use. A Pinto car with a V8 certainly has power, but it still handles like crap and is ugly to look at. ProE is not intuitive software that you can be quickly productive with and trying to implement parametric equations can be quite confusing.

Inventor is very capable. It was very intuitive for me. I was able to make parts and drawings within an hour or two without having ever seen inventor before. In my opinion, Inventor and Alibre are comparable for ease of use. Inventor is far more powerful than Alibre. It's 2D drawing capabilities are far superior. Alibre has neglected 2D for quite some time. I think over the last year they have gotten the message about 2D and will be rectifying the neglect of 2D in the future. An example of Inventor's superior 2D capabilies; cut-away views can be created by drawing an aribitrary shape in one view and selecting the depth to cut away in another view. For example, drawing a closed spline on a front view and then drawing a line or curve on a side view would cut away all parts in the front view that lay in front of the line or curve that was drawn in the side view. That is probably a poor explanation so I'll elaborate. Imagine an illustration in which an artist or illustrator draws a sketch of an object and breaks a portion of the object away and draws what lies beneath the broken out portion. This is something that is easy to do in Inventor. Inventor can shade any 2D drawing view. Inventor can correctly dimension isometric views. Inventor has a convenient way to create revision tables. There are many other 2D capabilities that can be done in Inventor that Alibre cannot do or it does it poorly. Some 3D capabilites that Alibre can not do: Surfaces, 3D text operations, texture mapping, sharing sketches among parts in assembly, importing sketches, surfaces, and solid geometry from parts into other parts and assemblies for reference and sharing parameters. I wish very much that Alibre could do even elementary surfaces to use as cutting planes. In inventor, an arbitrary surface can be used to cut a part into two parts and either both parts can be kept or one side or the other can be discarded. Alibre can import surfaces and work with them, but at least being able to define a cutting plane within Alibre would be nice. Texture mapping is very handy for making a simplified 3D model look correct. For example, I modeled a tubular cylinder in Inventor that was formed from relatively fine wire mesh. Rather than actually modeling the mesh (this would be insanely computationally intensive), I modeled the tubular cylinder with a thin wall having the same thickness as the mesh. I then texture mapped a mesh onto the cylinder so that the model looked like it was made from mesh. Very easy to do, very computationally efficient (didn't bog the computer down), and produced a model in which it was very easy to tell which parts were mesh. And this was not done in the rendering portion of Inventor, texture mapping can be done in the part modeling module. 3D text can easily be embossed or engraved onto or into a part and any surface color can be changed so it was also possible to changed the color of the 3D text so that it was more clearly visible. Inventor also handles large assemblies very well, Alibre does not. Creating exploded assemblies was better in Inventor than it is in Alibre. Much easier to position parts in Inventor.

Here's the kicker. I was able to figure out how to do all this in Inventor in a matter of weeks without training, books, or manuals. Only fiddling with it and using online help. I have learned Alibre in the same matter so I don't consider Inventor to have an advantage in usability. I don't think it is possible to learn ProE by fiddling around and using online help only (ProE online help is a disaster). Ok, it is probably possible to do so with ProE, but you will have pulled all your hair out long before you have figured out ProE.

Now, as Miles said earlier, Inventor is Autodesk and that's a minus in my book. I like Inventor, but Autodesk likes to spend more time figuring out how to make their files unusable by other software (and their own for that matter) rather than fixing stuff. Autodesk could probably cut their software prices by half if they would quit screwing with the file format so much.

I really like Alibre's business philosophy, but I feel they have made some serious errors like neglecting 2D functionally and not developing really useful 3D capabilities because they feel they are for high end software only.

I'm getting tired of writing and this post is much too long for a first post so I will stop here and summarize.

I like Alibre, but it is not nearly a powerful as Inventor. I estimate its 3D capability to be about 50% to 60% of Inventor maybe as high as 70%, its sheet metal is about 40% to 50% of Inventor, and its 2D is about 40% of inventor. Some would say the capabilities lacking in Alibre are only for the esoteric, but I disagree. Hopefully, some of the examples I give above show this. I don't say this to disparage Alibre, I am just realistic.

Hope this helps

Good day to all
 

dudley

Member


Apparently my message was clipped, so here is the rest of it.


texture mapping can be done in the part modeling module. 3D text can easily be embossed or engraved onto or into a part and any surface color can be changed so it was also possible to changed the color of the 3D text so that it was more clearly visible. Inventor also handles large assemblies very well, Alibre does not. Creating exploded assemblies was better in Inventor than it is in Alibre. Much easier to position parts in Inventor.

Here's the kicker. I was able to figure out how to do all this in Inventor in a matter of weeks without training, books, or manuals. Only fiddling with it and using online help. I have learned Alibre in the same matter so I don't consider Inventor to have a advantage in usability. I don't think it is possible to learn ProE by fiddling around and using online help only. Ok, it is probably possible to do so with ProE, but you will have pulled all your hair out long before you have figured out ProE.

Now, as Miles said earlier, Inventor is Autodesk and that's a minus in my book. I like Inventor, but Autodesk likes to spend more time figuring out how to make their files unusable by other software (and their own for that matter) rather than fixing stuff. Autodesk could probably cut their software prices by half if they would quit screwing with the file format so much.

I really like Alibre's business philosophy, but I feel they have made some serious errors like neglecting 2D functionally and not developing really useful 3D capabilities because they feel they are for high end software only.

I'm getting tired of writing and this post is much too long for a first post so I will stop here and summarize.

I like Alibre, but it is not nearly a powerful as Inventor. I estimate its 3D capability to be about 50% to 60% of Inventor, its sheet metal is about 40% to 50% of Inventor, and its 2D is about 40% of inventor. Some would say the capabilities lacking in Alibre are only for the esoteric, but I disagree. Hopefully, some of the examples I give above show this. I don't say this to disparage Alibre, I am just realistic.

Hope this helps

Good day to all
 

jhiker

Alibre Super User


Nice work dudley...

As someone who has never used inventor I found that very informative - great summary!
 

scarr

Senior Member


Hey, does Inventor come with its very own set of collaboration tools? File repository with versioning capabilities? For that matter does Catia? (no you pay scads extra for such functionality), Pro-E, Solidworks?
I'm not sure how Inventor is set up, does it come standard with sheetmetal? The surfacing package? File export capabilities? Neutral, sharable file formats? Or are all these extra licenses you pay for?
Can a regular guy buy it and take his license from place to place, like the tool set those of us who are old enough remember? And I'll bet dollars to donuts their yearly maintenance fee is at least a thousand dollars per seat. You probably also need a small army of IT/support people to keep things running smoothly. And if I'm a small company that makes widgets or widget assemblies, do I really need the overkill of these high end applications? Like Greg says Alibre brings 80% of the functionality of the larger packages to you at 20% of the price.
 

Adam_N

Member


I have used Inventor and Solidedge. I found Inventor capable but Edge seems to be a more mature/refined product. It has some very good sheetmetal functionality and handles large assemblies very well. The thing that I like about Edge over Inventor and AD is that it is very efficient to use, you don't have popup dialog boxes and multiple mouse clicks to complete its commands. I can get things done very quickly in Edge.

The fact of the matter is that the mid-range packages are more capable than AD, but AD also has pretty awesome collaboration tools which would have to pony up a great deal of money from the others.

Of course the big kicker: Inventor-Solidworks-Solidedge all start around $5K and cost $1-1.5K per year in maintenance.....Ouch! Pretty hard pill for a small shop to swallow. Money can be a big driving force.
 

swertel

Alibre Super User


And it wasn't long ago that Edge, Works, and IV had the same feature set that Alibre has now. Alibre is still the new guy on the field, you can't expect them to compete feature-for-feature against guys that have been in the industry longer.

Look at the history of the companies (plural because of acquisitions) and you will realize that they were the first ones on the block with CAD, although it was packaged more like a CAM program. You may here things that Pro/E was the first. No, Pro/E was the first to really define parametric CAD to the masses. SolidWorks was the first to make parametric CAD accessable to masses. Alibre is the first to make parametric CAD accessablet to everyone. Take for example a certain forum lurker who bought expert for personal hobby use out of his own cash. No corporate finances to back up that purchase. When a home user can purchase a powerful 3D modeling tool, it has reached the masses.

So I definitely agree that Alibre needs work on 2D and it needs to keep developing new time-saving features while fixing time-wasting bugs. But at the same time, I know that those things come with maturity of the product, and I'm in the position where I can wait because what is available now is what I mostly use. It's a good position to be in.
 

Adam_N

Member


According to Wiki:
Solidworks was released in 1995
Solid Edge was developed by Intergraph in 1997
Alibre was released in 1999
Inventor was released in 1999
ProE was started in 1988.

Oh oh, opinions follow:

Point being that ProE is the only old dog, the others are fairly close in development time. The difference is that the others have had big money to throw at developing their products. AD is very powerful for the money that it does cost.

Believe me, I want AD to become a good, stable cad package that can compete with the others and do it for a lot less money. I think that Alibre is close and I will be there using it daily.
 

hartlw

Alibre Super User


ViaCAD 2D/3D (mac and Vista) is starting to get into my price range, $99.99 (there is no such thing as $100 in America). I think it derives from Ashlar-Vellum which ,oh, what's his name, used to design the plane he flew non-stop around the world. I tried to download a trial demo and registered for it, but got no signs of life.
 

swertel

Alibre Super User


To get a more accurate history, find the timelines for
Integraph
Cadam
UGS and Unigraphics (such as United Computing in 1963)
http://www.plmworld.org/museum/
for those of you who remember using the PFK on your Unix terminal, or a tablet interface.

And where did Integraph (or is it Intergraph) go to? It's now called SolidEdge Draft. So right from the start, SE had a great 2D drafting package with little required development. SE still has, in my opinion, one of the best drafting packages in the mid-range CAD arena. They started with something very strong and modified it to interact with the 3D models. From there, the only development in drafting is to keep it up to date with the changes to solid modeling (and make it easier for ACAD converts). Solidworks and Alibre had to start from scratch, more or less, and thus spent valuable resources developing 2D instead of focusing on integrating 2D while enhancing 3D. Once SW and AD have a chance to develop their 2D application as long as Integraph and Autodesk have, then they'll be great. In the meantime, the world is changing and standardizing on drafting within the 3D model. It's a tough guess to decide how much effort should be spent developing 2D considering that some time in the future (5 years? 10 years? 25 years?), it will all be wasted.
 

Mibe

Alibre Super User


The first version of Alibre, in it's current form, was released in 2002... right? 1999 it was a different sort of application, client-server based modelling in Internet Explorer!

Good Idea - but still to slow. Wait another 10 years :)
 

swertel

Alibre Super User


Yes. Alibre Design v5.0 (Sept 2002) was the first version of the CAD application. Prior to that, I believe it was mostly an online collaboration tool with file repository.

What we have since v5 is development focused on the CAD aspect and less focused on what makes Alibre unique - repository and online collaboration. Three cheers for searchable respositories!

I still hope that Alibre spends some serious time developing the repository and online tools to make it compete with the big named (and high priced) PLM tools like: Smarteam, Team Center, Windchill, etc. Just a few functions to deal with workflows and approvals would be awesome.

For example, beyond check-in/check-out, have status like: in work, in check, pre-release, released, baselined, canceled, and obsolete. Use the internal messenger to send notification of a change in status and thus "move" the file onto the next step in the workflow. Set up the repository to map folders and/or server & local repositories to move files based on stage in the workflow. For example, released files get stored on the network repository for backup. In work files get stored in the users local repository to improve performance. Of course, local repositories are shared within a workgroup, so moving a file to a local repository will not prevent other users from viewing it or using it as a reference in their assembly nor break any links. Version control is available within the repository, add a field for revision control as well.

I could go on and on how I could see the repository and online tools of Alibre be developed to outperform the competition. But instead, stagnation :cry: except for searchable repositories. :p
 

szimmer

Senior Member
Wow!

Great info guys!

Thanks for all the interesting opinions on Inventor and Alibre.

Inventor sounds awesome but it costs $5200 for the regular suite and $8,000 for the professional suite. Very impressive what it offers but also VERY VERY EXPENSIVE.

Maybe I will be lucky and i can convince the company I work for to buy one seat.

Otherwise, I will enjoy using Alibre and look forward to it maturing!!

Simon
p.s.
There is a also photo-rendering software add-on for Inventor that costs $5,000! ouch! But I must say the results look BETTER than the real thing! Scary!
 

CGN

Senior Member


Viacad is based on concept3D CAD and is similar to vellum because the guy that wrote the code or part of it was one of the guys behind ashlar vellum.

PunchCAD bought concepts3D (or whatever the name of the company) and they come up with the idea of Viacad.

Seems like a mix of Rhino3D and MCAD features
 

rollin45

Senior Member


Slightly different perspective in that I'm really new to 3D drawing/modeling of any sophistication.

I'm just an ol' construction worker, pipefitter welder by trade Lo #140 and have done this for 30+ years. I'm nearing the point where I can take a slightly early retirement and my health, in spite of my general working conditions is pretty good. I like to build things, all sorts of things and I find it helps to draw up my ideas before I actually start cutting material.

I played with TurboCad, ver 3. was the first, upgrading as time went along, but stopped at 10.2 or so. It was around this time that IMSI started putting 3D capabilities into their software. For the life of me, I simply couldn't keep the various axes straight. Oh, I could have located things by point, (x,y,z) but I could actually build something quicker than I could draw it.

Some time later I tumbled across Sketchup, and I was in heaven! I could quickly and fairly accurately model my ideas in 3D and it didn't take a week of head pounding and starting over to put on the screen and thus see what an assembly would look like given certain dimensions etc.
I follow the Sketchup forums, though as a lurker for the most part as I learn much better when "listening" instead of talking. It was there I first saw Alibre mentioned, fairly soon after I saw it and others mentioned in the CNC forum. This picqued my curiousity and so I investigated a few other 3D cad modeling softwares. After looking around quite a bit, and test firing a couple, I bought Alibre, and, "in for a penny in for a pound" ...I went full bore.

The price point was of course a factor, (a major factor) as I'm just a working guy, but I'm learning the in's and outs of the program and so far I'm delighted. I of course don't have the expertise a great many of the regular forum members have, nor do I have needs, deadlines or workflow problems. I have however, modeled a "widget" which I hope to bring to market in the very near future, and Alibre has made the design/ prototype stage much easier.

regards
rollin'
 
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