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I've got a $2000 (USD) budget to get a new CAD Laptop

joshua.white

Senior Member
What do you guys recommend? It seems like I can get a fairly high-end gaming rig, or a low end mobile workstation rig. I'm on an old Dell Vostro 3770 right now. It's a Sandybridge era i5, with 8GB of ram, a 250GB SSD, and an Nvidia 525 GPU.

What's the consensus on GPUs? Does/will Geomagic Design want a workstation class GPU, or is it just as well off with a consumer oriented model? I'll be designing a next generation machine, which will be an assembly of 500-1000 parts (the previous generation machine model has 790 parts, not including most fasteners, but the goal is to simplify with this generation where possible). So Geforce, Quadro, FirePro, or consumer AMD?

As for the CPU, as I understand things, single core performance is the goal with Geomagic, so I should generally look for clock speed over core count for a given CPU architecture, so that probably means I'll be sticking with Intel.

In terms of Memory, I often max out my 8GB of RAM, so I think I'll be looking for 16GB on this system.

The SSD is rather nice to have, and since I use the M-Files and store all my files on a server, I don't need a lot of local storage. I seem to have plenty of room on my existing SSD, so I think I can stick with the same specs here.

For the Display, I think I'd like to stick with 17". I've used 15" and 17" Dell Precision Mobile Workstations in the past, and I guess I was happy with both, but I find that the 17" monitor I have right now is a pretty good size next to my 21.5" desktop monitor when I'm in the office (I'd plan to keep this for the time being). The 17" monitor is also nice when traveling since it's my only display, though it it a bit bulkier to carry. I typically drive to where I travel for work, so it's not like I have to lug it through airports all that often. So that said, I think I'd prefer a 17" display, running at 1080p+ resolution (my current display is 1600x900, and surprisingly not as bad as it may sound).

Does anyone else have a system like this? What are recommendations as far as compatibility? I've had issues all along on my current system working with 2D acceleration and creating drawing views. What can I do to maximize performance in this area? As you may guess, making a drawing of a ~800 part assembly can be a struggle with my existing machine, and I'm looking to reduce the amount of time I spend waiting for the computer, and would rather increase the amount of time it spends waiting for me.

Anything you kind folks can suggest would be greatly appreciated!
 

RocketNut

Alibre Super User
I'm using "Alienware 18" loptop with an Intel i7 with Windows Pro and 16G memory. I like it a lot. I don't know about this but on Oct 31 Microsoft told companies they are not allowed to sell machines with Windows 7 installed. Thus meaning the vendor can not offer Windows 7 as the OS (only Windows 8). Bummer
 

bigseb

Alibre Super User
A high end gaming rig is what I would choose (mainly 'cos I game occasionally too). Plus the core difference between the two is just the graphics card really. Yes, a workstation has other differences too like better processors, more RAM, more/better connectivity, etc but that only really becomes an issue when you doing very high-end stuff with large files over a Gb in size. In which case you wouldn't go with a laptop anyway...

SSD's... I'm not convinced to move to them yet. Apart from the high cost and fragility you will be limited to the speed of your ports and external drives. A properly set-up and maintained OS on a HDD should boot up in approx. 50 secs. (1st generation i7; not sure about 4th gen). You could shave of about 15-20 seconds with an SSD. Is that worth the extra outlay?

17" monitor... that takes me back. Occasionally I still use my laptop while my big machine is crunching numbers. That has a 17" screen too. Nothing beats 22" and up.

Ram-wise I would definitely go with 16GB.

An alternative: with $2000 you could build yourself a better specced desktop (maybe 2nd or 3rd gen i7) with a 22" monitor and buy a small 15" laptop for travelling...
 

joshua.white

Senior Member
One of my common use cases is to work from home, as well as a hotel room on a monthly basis. If I could connect my home machine to my work VPN when I'm doing work, it would have some benefits, but that's combining my work/home a bit more than I'd like for other reasons. Keeping my work system portable does have its advantages. I've been doing CAD on laptops since 2009 or so, and I've gotten pretty used to it, and I don't think I'd want to go back.

I happen to like Windows 8. I've got it running on several systems at home, and especially since 8.1 U1, it's been just about perfect for me. If I'm *stuck* with Windows 8, then that's fine by me, though running Windows 7 Enterprise, I'm fairly certain that we have some sort of volume licensing deal here, so I think I can run 7 if I wish.

I've been using SSDs in most all of my systems for a couple of years now. I'm not sure why you call them fragile; I've seen -zero failures in the 5 SSDs I've used, while of the dozen or so HDDs I've used in the past several years, I had 3 failures (yes, it's an anecdote, and not statistical proof, but I'm not going to ignore what I've personally witnessed either). Especially in a mobile system, eliminating a major moving part like a 5400 or 7200 rpm HDD in favor of a solid state SSD seems quite the opposite of fragile. Everyone cites boot times with SSDs as an advantage, but those same benefits apply when you're moving files locally, launching applications, and doing most anything related to local storage drive access. The cost isn't nearly what it once was either (especially if you build your own systems; the suppliers still see them as an excuse to collect some "value added" money).

I've got a pair of matched 27" monitors at home (and I connect my laptop to one of them when I work from there), but the 21.5" monitor I have at work really doesn't do too badly as a CAD screen, while the 17" monitor of my current laptop is great for an email client, web browser, explorer windows, M-Files window, etc., and I'd like to keep that capability.

My work seems to require that I use an HP machine. I'm on a Dell now, but since my system was purchased several years ago, they've switched to HP as our hardware supplier. From what I can tell, HP only seems to sell laptops with Intel graphics, or workstation graphics. I didn't see anything in between. See the attachement for the machine I've spec'd so far. The only thing I'm not absolutely certain about is the FirePro M6100 GPU. From what I can tell, in terms of raw capabilities, it's somewhere between a Quadro K2100M and a Quadro K3100M (closer to the 3100 in terms of bandwidth), but it's priced about $400 cheaper than the K3100M. If anyone has experience using the latest Geomagic Design with this GPU, I'd like to get a first hand account of the performance, and compatibility. I'm normally an Nvidia guy, but and if it were my money, I'd pay for the K3100M, but given this machine is already 25% over my budget, I don't think that's an argument I can win.
 

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mikeschn

Senior Member
I didn't realize Xeons were that scarce in laptops...

I did find this...
EUROCOM Panther 5SE

Maybe get a barebones laptop and drop in your own cpu? as long as the bios supports it...

LGA2011, LGA1150 and LGA1155 ?

Mike...
 

joshua.white

Senior Member
mikeschn said:
I didn't realize Xeons were that scarce in laptops...

I did find this...
EUROCOM Panther 5SE

Maybe get a barebones laptop and drop in your own cpu? as long as the bios supports it...

LGA2011, LGA1150 and LGA1155 ?

Mike...

I'd consider the idea if it were just up to me, but right now, it looks like my company forces me to choose something from the HP catalog (which I wasn't aware of when I originally posted).
 

mikeschn

Senior Member
That sounds to me like an HP Zbook 17 G2 Mobile with a 4710MQ CPU, and an NVIDIA Quadro K1100M. It has a Passmark CPU Benchmark of 8037.

Mike...
 

joshua.white

Senior Member
I linked above to a similar build. To keep it inline with my budget, I went with the FirePro M6100 GPU. It's cheaper, and in terms of raw performance, it's more like the K2100M or K3100M. I'm not sure how well Geomagic Design will take advantage of it, and all I can find for specs from the site is any card with Direct X 9+ support (the M6100 is a Direct X 11.1 device). I went with a higher clock speed Dual Core CPU instead of a quad core i7 (it'll still have hyperthreading, so that's still essentially a 4 Core machine).
 
Joshua -- I am running a FirePro V4900 on my workstation and it plays quite nicely with GMD. I did go through a bunch of pain getting all the setting properly set (call it two days of tweaking) during the initial configuration, but it has worked flawlessly ever since.
 

bigseb

Alibre Super User
mikeschn said:
That sounds to me like an HP Zbook 17 G2 Mobile with a 4710MQ CPU, and an NVIDIA Quadro K1100M. It has a Passmark CPU Benchmark of 8037.

Mike...
A quadro card is no good for GD. You want GeForce.

Quadro: opengl
GeForce: directx
 

MikeHenry

Alibre Super User
bigseb said:
mikeschn said:
That sounds to me like an HP Zbook 17 G2 Mobile with a 4710MQ CPU, and an NVIDIA Quadro K1100M. It has a Passmark CPU Benchmark of 8037.

Mike...
A quadro card is no good for GD. You want GeForce.

Quadro: opengl
GeForce: directx

I'm not sure that "no good" is the right descriptor, though "too expensive" or "unnecessary" probably apply. I use GMD on two workstations that are each equipped with Quadro boards and both seem to work fine, other than Big Red X issues when their screen savers kick in.

Mike
 

mikeschn

Senior Member
I'd love to understand this better.

Doesn't CAD use GL? Don't games use directx?

Was Alibre written with preference to one over the other? Is there really a difference in speed using one over the other?

I'm sure I'm not asking the right questions, so please help me out!

I have a desktop box with a GTX580 to help me out with rendering. Something about Cuda cores... So is that okay for CAD or should I have considered the Quadro card?

Mike...
 

DavidJ

Administrator
Staff member
Alibre/Gemagic Design uses DirectX for 3D graphics.

Traditionally OpenGL is common in 3D CAD, and tends to have more requirement for 'workstation' level graphics cards (which can be expensive).

DirectX is used for games, which means a large consumer market leading to lower prices for cards.

Geomagic Design won't benefit particularly from Quadro card, and there have been cases of users having problems with Quadro cards.

A potential confusion here is that other Geomagic applications (with similar names) may use OpenGL.
 

bigseb

Alibre Super User
To add to what David says: If you use many CAD programs then you need to either a) have a dedicated PC for each one or b) have some kind of of dual graphic card set-up, which is likely to cause more problems. In fact, I believe many people that try GD on a trial basis to see if its an economical replacement for their more expensive current software run into problems because of this very issue. Falsely believing that a Quadro card is the be-all and end-all of computer graphics they are unable to get GD to run properly and ultimately blame the software. I know... off on a tangent...

Interestingly, Moi, uses opengl. Strange that its bundled with GD... :roll:
 

JL82

Senior Member
I ordered a laptop Lenovo IdeaPad Z50-70. Is Nvidia GeForce GT 840M graphics card compatible well with Geomagic Design?
 

TylerDurden

Alibre Super User
GeForce should be fine. My new rig has the 870M and the old rig has the FX Go5200, they both manage GD with no issues.
 

JST

Alibre Super User
Not sure what problems a quadro causes, but have seen zero. Any issues I have have been resolved elsewhere.

I have a quadro FX 1600M in this machine, it is what it comes with. So far no issues in over a year of useage with both XP and now Win7. I have seen nothing to "blame the software for". As much use as it has gotten, I seriously doubt whether I could have missed it.

The ONLY issue ever seen is an occasional failure to come out of sleep mode correclly, and I am reluctant to blame that on the quadro, although it could be at fault. That's rare, however.
 
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