License Surpise

[Jim C]

Ok ya got me! I guess the “permanent” designation is used to distinguish between software that is leased on a fixed time basis and cannot be used after the lease term and software that can be used after the “lease” or “maintenance” period without additional support. If I decide not to renew my maintenance I can still use GD permanently without additional support.

There are software packages that are basically leased in that after the specified time elapses the program will no longer run.

At least that’s my guess.

Jim C

 

[RocketNut]

YES Jim C:
If you have permanent license and do not renew then you do not get software updates/hot fixs or tech support and you are stuck with that version. Trail license means after a certain amount of time then the software quits working. It's like Anti-Virus program. If you do not renew your yearly license then you do not get the lates virus updates. Which means your Anti-Virus is outdated which opens the door all sorts of nasty computer virus that the update would have stop.

That's why I don't understand GM licensing scheme. All I see is this having to phone home at lest once during a 30 day period means there tracking me. Possible to generate dollars by having pop ads. .

 

[IonSteve]

RocketNut:

I'm not a company man. I'm just a regular schmuck user. I am what one might call a disinterested third party.

I have read and re-read David's original post re the USB dongle option that set you off. At no point does he toe a company line or sing praises. He merely presented the options that he is aware of, and even then he expressed some of his own reservations about those same options. In other words David appears to agree with you. He doesn't seem thrilled with the current state of affairs, either.

At the moment you have 801 posts to this forum, mostly asking for help. David has 4,886 posts to this forum, mostly providing help. As has been pointed out, David does not work for 3DS. To reframe that statement, he is not being paid to help you, or me, or anyone else here. He's doing it for the sake of being helpful. That sort of behavior is highly appreciated. Your attack on him is not only unappreciated, it is a childish temper tantrum that is damaging to the collegial atmosphere of this forum as a community and makes it easier for outside observers to dismiss what could otherwise be useful feedback.

You are ticked off about the way 3DS is handling licensing, and that's obviously fine. There are legit points to be made. Regular users of this forum are pretty aware of those points. It is likely that most of us agree to a greater or lesser extent, including myself. Thus, to some degree, an angry screed about those points is not only preaching to the choir, it also damages the credibility of us as a user community. It is much more difficult for a company to dismiss the concerns and feedback of a calm, methodical, rational, adult, body of users versus a petulant, loud-mouthed body of pitch-fork wielding internet trolls who resort to name calling and personal attacks on helpful platform evangelists.

At one point last summer I was so irked with the GeoMagic name-change that I posted about it here. I worked to make my displeasure apparent but also to put it into context that 3DS decision makers could identify with and comprehend in a tangibly useful way. That post led to an hour long phone call with the 3DS VP for marketing, who was a really good guy. We had what one might call a free and frank exchange of ideas in a pleasant and professional tone. We even made each other laugh a few times. I didn't get my way, and I am still walking around with a pebble in my shoe because of it, but the point is I had the opportunity to directly engage with an actual "company man" because I acted like someone who could be engaged with. At this point I don't think anyone from 3DS would engage you with a stream of yellow water if you were on fire.

All of the very best to everyone--

Steve

 

[RocketNut]

what ever

 

[DavidJ]

There are 2 issues here

1. The fact that the system didn't work as intended, and left quite a lot of people without access to the software. Unforgivable in my book - something that effort should be put into at least attempting to improve.

2. Concerns about the basic idea of software 'phoning home' - either for computer security or personal privacy reasons. Legitimate concerns, though ones that are much wider than can probably be addressed here. Since an awful lot of software does something similar these days, and Alibre has always done it in previous versions (though maybe less obviously) - I wouldn't be hopeful of a change any time soon. There are also some benefits to the 'phone home' - but it's clear that people have differing views about that.


The USB dongle can avoid both 1 & 2 above, but personally I wouldn't currently pay the fee for a dongle and I know dongles can suffer problems too.

 

[GDBranch]

My experience with licensing today was frustrating. A call to support was immediately answered.
Support apologized for the inconvenience and offered to call me back as soon as a solution was
implemented. Exactly 25 minutes later I received a call from support saying the problem was solved.
I was a able to get back to work with no further problems.

For what it's worth, several weeks ago I got tired of the rants from Rocketnut which seemed to be
escalating and placed him on the "Foes" list in the user control panel. It quickly restored peace to my
reading on the forum.
I've been a member of this forum since 2007 and visit it literally on a daily basis. The professional
atmosphere and helpful users here have been a real pleasure. The Foe list may be helpful to other
people here who aren't moderators.

 

[jack_]

Since an awful lot of software does something similar these days,...

It's not true... Most of the software are involved in the internet connection for ACTIVATING software.
ACTIVATING means nothing more than ACTIVATING - it's one time action.
Phone home is mean to be CHECKING

Why I have to be CHECKED if I have an ACTIVATED PERMANENT license??

I'm a IT guy and also a programmer.
That path is a mega path of failure which we have seen on Friday.

For example:
I have an ACTIVATED license. My provider is down for 30 days, router is dead, mouses eaten all company LAN cables, etc....
What we have?? I have to go to search for example McDonald restaurant to enable license, which is permanent.

Let's say it LOUD:
GEOMAGIC LICENSE ISN'T PERMANENT ! PERMANENT MEANS PERMANENT - there is no other meaning of that!


If you buy a Mercedes car from reseller, do you want to drive in every 30 days for need of engineer to unlock your car[for next 30 days]??


Want to know how looked my Friday??
Boss: Jacek please change those dimension and send it urgently on HAAS VF-3
Jacek: I cannot do that.
Boss: What the hell?
Jacek: I have a license down.
Boss: What does it mean??
Jacek: I don't know - I cant use the CAD software.
Boss: How the hell?? We've payed for this Expert license many money ! Didn't we buy it and renewed?? Do we have a license???!
Jacek: Yes we did.
Boss: So you want to tell me that we cannot use CAD that we've buyed and payed over 2500 USD???!!
Jacek: Yes, sir.
Boss: That's f...g STUPID !! Who has choose that software !!!!
Jacek: Me, sir.
Boss: So tell me now what will you do for the next 7 hours of work??
Jacek: I don't know - I'm trying to fix but it's still after few minutes breaking.
Boss: *** CENSORED ***
...

And they NOT lived happily ever after...

 

[DavidJ]

We can disagree about how common 'phoning home' might be in the software world (Acrobat, Java, Windows, Quickbooks, Skype, Office, Chrome, M-Files, GMD - just the obvious ones on my PC, there are probably some I don't even know about).

What I think is important is WHAT the software phones home for, and if that WHAT involves any licence/activation checks then it is important HOW it is implemented.

If the powers that be insist on a phone home in the software, then at least it should be done in a way that is fail safe (from the user perspective). We have seen recently that this isn't currently the case.

Don't get the idea that I'm any great fan of software phoning home - I just recognise that the chances of getting rid of it are slim. If we are stuck with it I'd rather the effort went into making it work robustly so that these incidents don't occur if something goes wrong during the phone home process (as it inevitably will at some point).

One reason for the phone home checking activation is so that when your office is burgled and your PC is stolen, the key for GMD on that PC can be 'killed' and you simply reactivate on your replacement PC (no questions about possible piracy, as the software on the stolen PC soon won't function).

 

[jack_]

We are talking about software that make money.
Companies can be down for days because of that.

Sorry, but Acrobat, Chrome, Skype or other office software will not give your full day off.

Phoning home is a point of failure.
GMD should not be off for a 30 days after a last phone home.
Someone mistake or a temporary bug can by my problem.

Each time you run the software GMD is connecting to alibre.com and flexnet servers.
So there is no 5 days off or 30 days off for phoning.
Each and every time you run software you are checked - that's NSA style.
If there was a delay - for example those 5 days, they could repair the bug on the servers
and we could not even know about it.

  TCP       192.168.10.201:53243   64.14.29.85:80
 [Geomagic Design.exe]
  TCP       192.168.10.201:53244   206.123.118.15:80
 [Geomagic Design.exe]

See for yourself.
Run GMD and very short after that in command line:

netstat -obn

https://www.virustotal.com/en/ip-address/64.14.29.85/information/
https://www.virustotal.com/en/ip-address/206.123.118.15/information/

 

[DavidJ]

Jack - I'm not arguing with you.

The software should run if you have a valid licence. Whatever process (if any) checking that should not be allowed to ruin your day by incorrectly disabling the software.

I agree phoning home is inherently prone to failure (loss of connection, internet congestion....) and that's before any problems at the server. Such systems CAN be designed (and tested) to work in a way that will not 'fall over' when things go wrong. I certainly wouldn't let these guys write control system software for anything critical like an aircraft or a chemical plant...

 

[Hughes_Tooling]

I've had problems where my computer freezes for no reason, all started when V16 was installed, see this post.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17453

I've had a couple of calls from support but they have not been able to help.
With a bit of my own detective work using Resource Monitor I've found all the freezes occur when GD is phoning home. The worst part is you only need GD's main window running for the freezes to occur and they freeze all running programs for one minute. It's an intermittent problem sometimes it'll freeze after only 5 minutes then it might be ok for 50. Also i've installed GD on another computer running XP (main computer runs Windos 7) using the same router and it runs ok, so there's no problem with my internet connection.

Why does GD need to phone home every 5 minutes why not once a day or every time you launch the program.

Mark.

 

[jack_]

Why does GD need to phone home every 5 minutes why not once a day or every time you launch the program.
Mark.

Because they want to know too more.
I did a little research with WireShark sniffer.
The communication with Flexnet is SSL crypted, but with alibre.com not[!!!].

When you start GD your program is sending to alibre.com:

- UserName -> xxx
- OSVersionEx -> Microsoft Windows NT 6.1.7601 Service Pack 1
- SiteKey -> xxx
- DisplayAdapter -> NVIDIA GeForce GTX 560 
- SetupVersion -> 16,0,1,16490
- ComputerName -> PC-PROD1
- ProductID -> DFB36A08-B76D-429C-8CDD-A9E7C84DD585
- LocalLaunchTime -> 14:22

and few others.

Each time you start GD the package goes to http://alibre.com/webservices/
SSL encrypted data to FlexNet in my opinion can contain much more data.
Time, date, IP what else??

For clarification they should write some notes about what do they sending to FlexNet servers.

 

[RocketNut]

GEOMAGIC LICENSE ISN'T PERMANENT ! PERMANENT MEANS PERMANENT - there is no other meaning of that!


If you buy a Mercedes car from reseller, do you want to drive in every 30 days for need of engineer to unlock your car [for the next 30 days]??


Want to know how looked my Friday??
Boss: Jacek please change those dimension and send it urgently on HAAS VF-3
Jacek: I cannot do that.
Boss: What the hell?
Jacek: I have a license down.
Boss: What does it mean??
Jacek: I don't know - I cant use the CAD software.
Boss: How the hell?? We've payed for this Expert license many money ! Didn't we buy it and renewed?? Do we have a license???!
Jacek: Yes we did.
Boss: So you want to tell me that we cannot use CAD that we've buyed and payed over 2500 USD???!!
Jacek: Yes, sir.
Boss: That's f...g STUPID !! Who has choose that software !!!!
Jacek: Me, sir.
Boss: So tell me now what will you do for the next 7 hours of work??
Jacek: I don't know - I'm trying to fix but it's still after few minutes breaking.
Boss: *** CENSORED ***
...

And they NOT lived happily ever after...

That's what I'm saying
Thanks Jack_ and +++1

 

[RocketNut]

Want to know how looked my Friday??
Boss: Jacek please change those dimension and send it urgently on HAAS VF-3
Jacek: I cannot do that.
Boss: What the hell?
Jacek: I have a license down.
Boss: What does it mean??
Jacek: I don't know - I cant use the CAD software.
Boss: How the hell?? We've payed for this Expert license many money ! Didn't we buy it and renewed?? Do we have a license???!
Jacek: Yes we did.
Boss: So you want to tell me that we cannot use CAD that we've buyed and payed over 2500 USD???!!
Jacek: Yes, sir.
Boss: That's f...g STUPID !! Who has choose that software !!!!
Jacek: Me, sir.
Boss: So tell me now what will you do for the next 7 hours of work??
Jacek: I don't know - I'm trying to fix but it's still after few minutes breaking.
Boss: *** CENSORED ***
...

Now I want to add:
RocketNut: Boss I have news about our Geomagic license.
Boss: I hope it good news.
RocketNut: You have to be kiding. There sending us a USB license dongle with out cost, but it will not get here until Monday!!!!
Boss: Your telling me we are down for a full week?
RockatNut: That's correct a week. I think there sending it by slow boat to China.
Boss: Why didn't they send it over night express You reported this problem over 30 days ago with out success. What does out renew license each year fees for? To line there pockets?
RocketNut: Yes 30 days ago I reported the problem. Like you boss boss I also do not understand there business thinking. It's like they do not can about us end users, just the bucks the can suck out of us.

 

[kcidlj53]

I am working in China (Beijing) and my Geomagic stopped working. I originally had 3 liscenses before upgrading to the New super zowie Geomagic 16. I cannot use it now because of the bull shi_t liscense stopped and I cannot get it working. when I use the GS utility all i get is a bunch of shi_t errors. It does not show any liscenses at all for me.
DO NOT UPGRADE TO THIS VERSION because the liscense server stuff is crap.
Give me a friggin usb for each of the 3 liscenses I originally purchased.

Anyone up for checking on a class action suit against geo(bullshizzle)magic??? :evil:

 

[DavidJ]

kcidlj53 - You might try contacting support.

There was an issue with Flexera Servers (now fixed) - as mentioned earlier in this thread. You have to re-enter activation code to get software working again.
If you have deeper issues, support can issue temporary files which bypass the servers. USB dongle could be an option for you, but that takes time to get hold of.

I'm not trying suggest you are wrong about the new licensing system - am just making suggestions that I hope may get you up and running.


You seem to misunderstand the previous licensing - each licence was single user, but allowed 3 (or 2 or 5 depending when purchased) activated installations for that one person to move between (only one allowed in use at a time). New system is usually single seat, but can be user transferred between an unlimited number of computers (internet connection required to do this). You would therefore only get 1 dongle (which can be moved between PCs) if you choose to go for that option.

Just a thought - might there be some influence of the 'great firewall of China' here ? If so Geomagic should consider this in future plans - lots of people travel to China for business these days and would expect their software to work.

 

[kcidlj53]

The problem very well may be the great firewall in China. No google,Utube etc. But this should not have happened in the first place.
Like I said before I had 3 computers that had Alibre on and running. When I bought a new computer I just contacted Alibre and voila now I used it on my new computer.
I had been singing the Alibre praises until this last version. When you upgrade or get a new version of a software you are using don't you expect it to be netter than the previous version? If it isn't why upgrade?

kcidlj53 - You might try contacting support.

There was an issue with Flexera Servers (now fixed) - as mentioned earlier in this thread. You have to re-enter activation code to get software working again.
If you have deeper issues, support can issue temporary files which bypass the servers. USB dongle could be an option for you, but that takes time to get hold of.

I'm not trying suggest you are wrong about the new licensing system - am just making suggestions that I hope may get you up and running.


You seem to misunderstand the previous licensing - each licence was single user, but allowed 3 (or 2 or 5 depending when purchased) activated installations for that one person to move between (only one allowed in use at a time). New system is usually single seat, but can be user transferred between an unlimited number of computers (internet connection required to do this). You would therefore only get 1 dongle (which can be moved between PCs) if you choose to go for that option.

Just a thought - might there be some influence of the 'great firewall of China' here ? If so Geomagic should consider this in future plans - lots of people travel to China for business these days and would expect their software to work.

RocketNut:

I'm not a company man. I'm just a regular schmuck user. I am what one might call a disinterested third party.

I have read and re-read David's original post re the USB dongle option that set you off. At no point does he toe a company line or sing praises. He merely presented the options that he is aware of, and even then he expressed some of his own reservations about those same options. In other words David appears to agree with you. He doesn't seem thrilled with the current state of affairs, either.

At the moment you have 801 posts to this forum, mostly asking for help. David has 4,886 posts to this forum, mostly providing help. As has been pointed out, David does not work for 3DS. To reframe that statement, he is not being paid to help you, or me, or anyone else here. He's doing it for the sake of being helpful. That sort of behavior is highly appreciated. Your attack on him is not only unappreciated, it is a childish temper tantrum that is damaging to the collegial atmosphere of this forum as a community and makes it easier for outside observers to dismiss what could otherwise be useful feedback.

You are ticked off about the way 3DS is handling licensing, and that's obviously fine. There are legit points to be made. Regular users of this forum are pretty aware of those points. It is likely that most of us agree to a greater or lesser extent, including myself. Thus, to some degree, an angry screed about those points is not only preaching to the choir, it also damages the credibility of us as a user community. It is much more difficult for a company to dismiss the concerns and feedback of a calm, methodical, rational, adult, body of users versus a petulant, loud-mouthed body of pitch-fork wielding internet trolls who resort to name calling and personal attacks on helpful platform evangelists.

At one point last summer I was so irked with the GeoMagic name-change that I posted about it here. I worked to make my displeasure apparent but also to put it into context that 3DS decision makers could identify with and comprehend in a tangibly useful way. That post led to an hour long phone call with the 3DS VP for marketing, who was a really good guy. We had what one might call a free and frank exchange of ideas in a pleasant and professional tone. We even made each other laugh a few times. I didn't get my way, and I am still walking around with a pebble in my shoe because of it, but the point is I had the opportunity to directly engage with an actual "company man" because I acted like someone who could be engaged with. At this point I don't think anyone from 3DS would engage you with a stream of yellow water if you were on fire.

All of the very best to everyone--

Steve

 

[elzaan1]

I am living in Africa - can 3DS UNDERSTAND THIS - JUST FD AS 3DS. Plain and simple . Sorry David, that is the plain truth and can be said as a spade as a spade. On top of that, again promises, rather the whole program is still one of the most lacking parametrics in features in the world. On top of thtat, THIS license bugger-up is a total ass-hole laugh in all other forums. I don't even want to use GM anymore. disgusted. What they think, ....want to sell they hollow promises and this license bugger-up with their other products....? Who will promote them. I am sure that the SW guys knows of it, TurboCad, Vectorworks, AutoCad and SpaceVlaim knows about it... Words get around and I even can see the forum is a total slowdown, used be active and lively.....3DS screwed it in a coffin, .....time to get it in the ground and gives the last songs. Total disgusted.My "permanent" license is total gone.... Time to get rather a pirate license to get the stuff out into SC and delete GM permanent. 3DS and their products is a joke.

 

[elzaan1]

Anyway - is they able to correct my status, and others ? And can they make a permanent solution for a permanent license ? If not, get rid of GM - FAST.

 

[DavidJ]

Have you tried re-entering your activation code (whilst connected to the internet)?

I know that isn't what you want to hear - I'm just trying to help you get it up and running. You can still protest to GM about how the licensing works (or rather doesn't). In fact I'd recommend that everyone who has had a problem should e-mail support or raise a support ticket via the web site - just to make sure GM is left in no doubt how widespread the issues are.