One Of Alibre's Major Problems Documented Again

[Anonymous]

One Of Alibre's Major Problems Documented Again

Here is a recent article from yet another source pointing out how badly direct editing of non-native imported geometry is needed.

Alibre is not capable of direct editing of non-native imported geometry

http://www.kubotekusa.com/news/in_the_n ... _01_05.doc

"All too often product designers create items that manufacturers cannot possibly fabricate—be that because the part is simply impossible to mold, they don’t have equipment available for a specified procedure or tolerances, and clearances are insufficient. It is for these reasons that smaller shops must have access to and utilize tools that can perform double duty. What is needed are truly interoperable products. "

In the job shop that I work in we frequently get designs that are not manufacturable because many engineers are good at making pretty pictures on their computer but don't have the proper understanding / machining job shop experience to know how to manufacture the pretty pictures they create. Like most other job shops who want to stay in business we must modify the non-native imported geometry to make it manufacturable as this is what the customer expects and demands of us.

This can't be done in Alibre because Alibre is devoid of the necessary direct editing tools for non-native imported geometry

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

 

[swertel]

It's interesting that you come to an Alibre forum to show us the functionality Alibre lacks. Do you also go to SolidWorks, Pro/E, CATIA, UG/NX, and Autodesk, too? Solid Edge is the only CAD package on the market today that has direct editing capability.

I wouldn't say this is problem with Alibre Design. This is an issue that exists across the entire MCAD market and is where there is plenty of room to grow for a developing industry.

Not to mention, no where in this report did is specifically list any MCAD packages that could or could not perform direct editing. How is this a documented lack of functionality of Alibre?

--Scott

 

[mtauer]

In the job shop that I work in we frequently get designs that are not manufacturable because many engineers are good at making pretty pictures on their computer but don't have the proper understanding / machining job shop experience to know how to manufacture the pretty pictures they create.

Maybe I live in this perfect world where design engineers are paid to know
DFM. Is this not the the way it is in the general population?

Is there that a great a need for tool shops to (ughhh)mess with peoples files? If so, I have not run across any tool shop that would even consider making changes without the owners consent.(liability)

Perhaps I am getting old and the product(designers) that is being put out there now have not a clue about machine/mold/manufacturing design?

Is it normal practice for engineers not to know DFM?

I have worked with a number of industrial designers that only know how to draw pretty pictures but when the ideas and sketches hit the design engineers desk it is the responsibility of that person to capture the essence of the ID thoughts and make it manufacturable.


It is interesting to note the article is closely linked to KeyCreator which I believe is the rework of CadKey that has now gone the way of the DoDo.

 

[Anonymous]

"Solid Edge is the only CAD package on the market today that has direct editing capability."

Not even close to true.

See back issues of upFronteZine where this is discussed at length.

http://www.upFronteZine.com


You asked if I also make this complaint of SolidWorks, Inventor, etc.

You bet I do.


Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

 

[Anonymous]

"Maybe I live in this perfect world"

You said it not me.

"Is there that a great a need for tool shops to (ughhh)mess with peoples files?"

We often have no choice but to clean up the mess. If we didn't the product could not be manufactured / manufactured at a reasonable cost.

"If so, I have not run across any tool shop that would even consider making changes without the owners consent"

It would appear that your having a difficult time comprehending this article like you could not comprehend the article that Ken Versprille wrote and I posted a link to. You had the same argument then as you do now. Your argument shows a lack of understanding / experience of how products often get manufactured in a collaboration between machine shop and designer / engineer. It also shows you can't understand what industry experts are stating is the case in todays market / the real world.

"Perhaps I am getting old and the product(designers) that is being put out there now have not a clue about machine/mold/manufacturing design? "

I concur but I feel you can learn if you make the effort to understand what industry experts are telling you and perhaps visit more / better machining job shops and talk with the people there to get a better understanding of what really goes on, rather than what you wish went on.

"It is interesting to note the article is closely linked to KeyCreator which I believe is the rework of CadKey that has now gone the way of the DoDo."

What in the world are you trying to say ? What does gone the way of the DoDo mean and how does it relate to Cadkey who was forced to file bankruptcy because of a lawsuit that Harold Bowers brought against Cadkey and won ?

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

 

[jwknecht]

Re: One Of Alibre's Major Problems Documented Again

Alibre is not capable of direct editing of non-native imported geometry

Just want to let you know that this statement is not completely true. Alibre has some direct editing. You can offset a face, move a face, remove a face, add draft, add fillets, add chamfers, scale, and much more. This is direct editing. Also, you can sculpt by joining, cutting, etc. I know this is not the full functionality that you were hinting at. But, I felt I had to correct this statement.

By the way, that correction was me speaking as a Alibre user (of which I am and you are not... explaining why you did not have a complete understanding of Alibre's capabilities).

Now, I will speak as a moderator. Your posts are welcome, but if you continue to use terms such as "It would appear that your having a difficult time comprehending" [a personal attack] or "Your argument shows a lack of understanding / experience of how products often get manufactured" [another personal attack].... Have no doubt this will not be tolerated and you will be no longer welcome to post at all. I don't have time to edit your posts to exclude the portions that will just piss the good users of this community off.

 

[Anonymous]

Again, Please post this as an enhancement request and move on!!!!!! If Alibre gets enough requests they will most likely implement this. However, it will be very expensive. In fact it will probably be more expensive than just purchasing a copy of each major software. It is called the price of doing business. If you own a job shop and can't afford to provide your customers with what they need then you are in the wrong business!!!!! You should include in the quote the amount of time required to modify or redo the model as required to cover all of your costs. I am pleased with Alibre and have actually utilized it to make a lot of money.


To the moderators: If this guy can't provide any valuable content or discussion can you please ban him. I don't believe that I have seen any contributions or questions from him about the actual use of Alibre!!!! He just complains.

 

[fitzbond]

Lenitech you are right it has been nice to discuss and disagree about the functionality in Alibre but this guy is soooo negative all of his post are filled with personal attacks and calling someone’s knowledge into question. We are suppose to be professionals here there is no reason for this kind of dialog I get enough of this kind of stuff on the political blogs.

 

[Mibe]

Re: One Of Alibre's Major Problems Documented Again

Here is a recent article from yet another source pointing out how badly direct editing of non-native imported geometry is needed.

Alibre is not capable of direct editing of non-native imported geometry

http://www.kubotekusa.com/news/in_the_n ... _01_05.doc

"All too often product designers create items that manufacturers cannot possibly fabricate—be that because the part is simply impossible to mold, they don’t have equipment available for a specified procedure or tolerances, and clearances are insufficient. It is for these reasons that smaller shops must have access to and utilize tools that can perform double duty. What is needed are truly interoperable products. "

In the job shop that I work in we frequently get designs that are not manufacturable because many engineers are good at making pretty pictures on their computer but don't have the proper understanding / machining job shop experience to know how to manufacture the pretty pictures they create. Like most other job shops who want to stay in business we must modify the non-native imported geometry to make it manufacturable as this is what the customer expects and demands of us.

This can't be done in Alibre because Alibre is devoid of the necessary direct editing tools for non-native imported geometry

Jon Banquer
Phoenix, Arizona

Please make some research about the product before posting false statements like this...

Why are you even registred as a user of this forum if the purpose is to tell everyone about "how bad" Alibre is (from your point of view)?

 

[mtauer]

You had the same argument then as you do now.

I did not feel compelled to offer any new insight, as you did not seem to offer any new insight from the previous thread you speak of.

like you could not comprehend the article that Ken Versprille wrote and I posted a link to

I did not feel it was worth my time to read this article after reading certain posts leading up to the article.

perhaps visit more / better machining job shops and talk with the people there to get a better understanding of what really goes on, rather than what you wish went on.

You speak as if we have met. I am sure I would have remembered. :shock: I spend an awful lot of time (sometimes I think too much)working with the tooling engineers from the very beginning of a program to flush out any manufacturing issues and hold meetings on a regular basis throughout the program to ensure files that are sent to the vendor are are ready.

I will ask the question again.

Is it normal these days for designers not to have a clue about manufacturing processes? Anybody, anybody?

This would be a sad state if true :cry: .

Also, is it standard practice now for manufacturing vendors to make changes to files, or is this just certain job shops that feel as though they need to "fix" files without the designers consent. If this is the case, I am pretty sure I do not want anything to do with those vendors

Is this direct editing really that big of an issue or is it just a marketing ploy of some sort put on by certain CAD packages?

Any valuable input would be very much appreciated.