Plasticity 3d - The new kid in the block

[Abhijit]

As a Generalist, working at the intersection of Art, Design and Engineering, unconstrained form/idea explorations has been an important and elementary part of my workflow.
Which was the reason I was pulled towards Moi as a complementary tool to my main MCAD, Alibre.
The freedom to ideate with no constraints, time consuming sketches and breaking features, proves to be a productivity and creativity multiplier.

Nick Allen, an artist and a developer understood all these pain points, and made his own CAD for Artists and Designers, Plasticity.
From a basic interface and commands, initially using C3D Geometry Kernel to pivoting to Parasolid, in 18 months he has managed to develop an amazing real-time direct modelling app that imo already gives a lot of CAD tools a run for the money they charge.
His goal is to make Plasticity, "The modern Alias".
What I am astonished by, is all this is done by one single man, updates every week, bug fixes in hours, implementing new features unbelievably fast.

The reason I brought this up, is because such Indie softwares are actually a reality check to all these behemoths moving at an Elephants pace and failing to empathise with a lot of what their users needs and wants are.

Alibre is my core MCAD and I love this software and the company.
I really wish the stakeholders see the potential of such markets and user segments, maybe as a way differentiating from the highly saturated MCAD market.
While I understand the pace and complexity of developement is different with an Industry grade Parametric Mechanical CAD vs a simple Direct Modeller, but it definitely can be a possible scenario having all those unconstrained shapeforming and high quality surfacing capabilities if one imagines.
Maybe, such a concept should have been the Alibre Atom, a hyper-powerful direct modelling core for creatives, hobbyists, newbies, and Pro and Expert with the added Parametric/Procedural capabilities?

Just food for thought, and apologies in advance for the off-topic thread.

 

[kritoke]

I have been playing with this new tool as well, and I had considered buying Moi3D eventually to do certain things that are harder to do in Alibre. I'm also quite impressed at what one guy has achieved; the software feels so intuitive. I'm likely going to get a copy to augment certain things, he does away with so many pain points. There are still many things I think Alibre will be great at doing, so I am not moving away from it completely. Already there are more videos on Plasticity and how to use it and make things than I have seen for Alibre, which I think is one pain point that keeps newbies away from it and also reduces its exposure to new users as well.

 

[Abhijit]

There are still many things I think Alibre will be great at doing, so I am not moving away from it completely.

Hello @kritoke ! I hear you.
Imo Plasticity is in no way in competetion with Alibre, since the core vision of Plasticity is to be a free flowing direct modeller for artists and designers, I don't think it will ever have Engineering features or even History Based modelling.

That said, Plasticity is definitely going to pull a huge chunk of users fed up with subscription based cloud cad, the hobbyists and the artists since they need none of the extra baggage that comes with those tools.

Which is why I mentioned, that maybe something like this could be the Atom3d, a powerful direct modelling/surfacing core on ACIS for artists and designers that forms a base for more complex parametric & engineering centric capable Pro and Expert editions, while also widening the reach.

 

[kritoke]

The history stuff is the big thing I miss when playing in it. Going back to edit distances or setting constraints just doesn’t seem easily done. Quick 3d designs seems to be its power and even better if you don’t need exact sizes, though it can do that. Starting to see where Alibre or even moi3d still have an edge. Though it’s so very early on the program, bound to have new features. I doubt history will be added though or more variable type things.

 

[WillAdams]

Thanks for mentioning this!

Somehow I missed the open beta, but decided to go ahead and support w/ a license --- hopefully it will help me to learn Alibre.

Agree w/ folks on the lack of parametric design --- put in a ticket on it:

Support for numbers/scripting/parametric design · Issue #145 · nkallen/plasticity

Things which I would like to see: anytime a significant dimension is instantiated in the interface, expose it in an optional pane or palette where such numbers could be re-arranged, hidden if need ...

github.com

 

[HaroldL]

hopefully it will help me to learn Alibre.

Care to explain? Alibre has tutorials for that.

 

[Abhijit]

Hi @WillAdams . I saw you in the Plasticity Discord!

the lack of parametric design

Oh yes, that's what's really unique about Plasticity and it's vision, it's all about that Direct Modelling power.
In my humble opinion, for the intent, it's really great because the powerful flexibility that is in shaping forms without constrained by the chains of the history based modelling paradigm.
That's exactly the segment MOI 3d caters to as well.

I am really looking forward for some high-level surfacing and as Nick says, his goal for V2 is "Alias for Dummies".
The user segment is mostly Artists in the Games and Films and hobbyists, I think Designers/Engineers would still stick to Rhino, Solidworks or Alibre for the most part, so it's nice to see some fellow MCAD users in the Discord, most Artists on hearing the word Parametric get anxiety haha.
In the future Parametric/Procedural workflows are a possibility, but more like Houdini/Blender/Grasshopper Node based workflows rather than the conventional history tree.

Imo Plasticity is already a great complimentary tool to Alibre.

I just wish that I never had to spend an extra $300 when all this could've been Alibre, Direct Modelling and Surfacing being the departments Alibre lags behind.
Imo discussions like these are healthy, and I hope people/stakeholders try it out and see the power and convenience such an approach brings to the table for all users.

 

[WillAdams]

I have tried to learn Alibre in the past, but never got too far:

Design into 3D: Parametric organizer in OpenSCAD

As a counterpoint to the one which I recently worked up in Alibre Atom3D: https://community.carbide3d.com/t/parametric-design-using-alibre-atom3d/17409 Here’s the beginnings of an OpenSCAD version of the one shown at the top of that post: Looking a bit tedious to add support for a total of...

community.carbide3d.com

I figure if I learn the 3D modeling/sculpting app Plasticity, the skills should transfer over to, and help me learn Alibre --- we'll see.

 

[multicaduser]

Plasticity uses Siemens parasolid kernel, at least from what a limited search showed, and NX has the strongest direct editing of the big cad packages. I was able to do things in NX that Solidworks couldn't touch, mostly because NX refused to share sdk for direct editing, which was developed in SolidEdge and moved up to NX. I've never used OnShape because their online requirements wasn't something I was willing to agree to.The direct editing paradigm makes me want to try Plasticity just to get a feel for the difference. Ironcad pioneered the push/pull paradigm, I also used that cad package before they had that feature but dropped it when they went to enterprise sized pricing. Change is constant, and that's ok.

 

[Abhijit]

The direct editing paradigm makes me want to try Plasticity just to get a feel for the difference.

You've gotta give it a solid try, though you'll very soon find its not really built for as much precise/constrained/parametric workflows as we have in our MCAD tools, but still imo it's pretty solid for the intent.
Maybe that experience can help us see Alibre through a different lens and undoubtedly, it'd be great to have some of those features here as well.
I keep on repeating myself, but this .. this approach could very well have been the Atom as a capable precise direct modelling core instead of the current much restricted implementation, followed by Pro and Expert editions.

 

[Model Engineer]

Hello all,

I second what Abhijit is saying about Plasticity being a complement and not a competitor to Alibre. Even though basic surfacing tools are available, Alibre's core focus is more towards solid modeling, leaving the customers the options to use Rhino or other surfacing software to complement. I think it's a good move, as they can invest more resources in the base tools.

I spent maybe 2 hours modeling this helmet in Plasticity for my kids. Something like a kid's helmet does not need to be accurate. I can drop it into Alibre, scale it accurately, and add things like a mic if I want to (just as an example). Another thing is that with some effort, you can use traditional applied geometry to accurately create sketches. It is similar to Rhino in that there's no history, which I'm sure might turn many off.

Alibre Pro + Plasticity is the perfect combo package for me as a hobbyist. I can model just about anything accurately and I am not using rental tools from Autodesk. Would be awesome to see Alibre import Plasticity files natively just like they do with Rhino.

Another point to contrast, the mic to helmet fillet took 10 seconds to solve on my machine in Alibre, whereas in Plasticity the fillet would solve in real time by clicking and dragging. I can also take fillets in a dumb solid step file and re-dimension them in Plasticity (in most cases). Parasolid is pretty amazing.

For V2.0 and beyond, the hope is to have Alias like surfacing functionality. For now, most modeling operations are doable in a very clean interface.

Cheers

Some other images from practice:

 

[WillAdams]

There was some discussion about version/feature road map on the Discord --- unfortunately, the feature I want, a block-programming/node editor interface won't appear until v3.

 

[kritoke]

You've gotta give it a solid try, though you'll very soon find its not really built for as much precise/constrained/parametric workflows as we have in our MCAD tools, but still imo it's pretty solid for the intent.
Maybe that experience can help us see Alibre through a different lens and undoubtedly, it'd be great to have some of those features here as well.
I keep on repeating myself, but this .. this approach could very well have been the Atom as a capable precise direct modelling core instead of the current much restricted implementation, followed by Pro and Expert editions.

After trying to go back and edit stuff a few times in Plasticity, it made me sad that you can't really do as much precision directly within the program. I see the main dev pretty much comment on some of his youtube videos that parametric just isn't something he is interested in at the moment. Moi3d is looking a bit more interesting for the things that are just harder to do in something like a normal cad program like Alibre. With the new version adding some ACIS kernel in a few areas in Moi3d and some minor discussion of direct modeling as well in a future beta of the new version, its something to keep an eye on for sure. Been going through that recent course one of the Moi3d users did that starts from someone knowing no CAD to most aspects of the entire program. Its around 36 videos. If we had something like that for Alibre, it would be helpful, we have some parts like it, but nothing a systematic and extremely well planned as that one.

 

[WillAdams]

The thing that kills me is that a very elegant interface could be made for parameters --- have a palette, every time an object or feature is created or instantiated, display the numbers for them --- one can then either plug in a number, or a formula, or plug in a number and assign a name (for use in a formula).

Make it sort things and afford an option to re-arrange things, and add a formula pane like to Lotus Improv and it'd "just work".

 

[kritoke]

The thing that kills me is that a very elegant interface could be made for parameters --- have a palette, every time an object or feature is created or instantiated, display the numbers for them --- one can then either plug in a number, or a formula, or plug in a number and assign a name (for use in a formula).

Make it sort things and afford an option to re-arrange things, and add a formula pane like to Lotus Improv and it'd "just work".

If it had this feature set, the program would cause even more waves in the CAD world than now. Kind of a missed opportunity, but I guess the developer is targeting more artists and modelers for games, videos, or art than real-world objects that we print or manufacture.

 

[Abhijit]

If it had this feature set, the program would cause even more waves in the CAD world than now.

Exactly! That's what I am low-key trying to say here.

Imagine all that (which is no rocket science)(beginner friendly)(low learning curve)(targets markets beyond heavy-duty engineering ie. general purpose CAD) + Alibre Precision, ie. Alibre Atom.
A fully featured fast and powerful direct modeller built on a precision backbone.
Alibre Pro and Expert for added Parametric and top class surfacing capabilities.
$2000 x 100 Alibre Expert seats is not better than $200 x 1000 Atom seats sold, because, you have 900 extra users reached in different markets, atleast 20% of which would like to upgrade.

Great Direct Modelling features are absolutely necessary in the Design Phase for quick iterations and concepting.
Plasticity shook the scene because there was a gap to be filled.

People don't want to own a fridge, they just want a cold beer.

 

[WillAdams]

To refine what I said above, here's a description of one way such an interface feature might work --- a set of three palettes:

- first --- where all numbers/dimensions would appear as objects are created as labeled text fields
- second --- a pane where the labeled text fields could be dragged to, and there re-named, and then the dimensions would become live and could be edited and the object would re-size in real time
- third --- a formula editor where one could create formulas using the names of the renamed text fields from the second palette --- said formulas could then be dragged to the fields in the second palette to define dimensions

does that seem reasonable? Or am I vastly underestimating the technical difficulties here? Or does no one else think in a fashion where the above would make sense and be useful to them?

 

[miftachul_rizky]

has anyone tried plasticity with alibre atom3d is that a good combination? because atoms do not support surface modeling

 

[Ex Machina]

I would like to say something about the title of this thread.

Plasticity is the new kid, but on a different block.

Also, I am not sure about this but isn't Plasticity using the C3D Modeller? If it is, won't that affect it going forward at some point?

To answer the question I see popping up here:

Atom+FreeCAD+Blender, you can do amazing stuff. You can compete with Alibre Design Expert, Solidworks and Inventor on design quality with that combo. It will just take considerably more time and effort per project. But that is something the hobbyist might not care about. It might actually be good as a hobby!

P.S. By the way, Blender just got a new "CAD" plug in and can do limited stuff with sketch constraints and extrude, revolve, etc. Maker Tales is also onboard with Blender CAD.

 

[multicaduser]

Reading some of the authors posts from I think close to a year ago, because of the sanctions on Russia he no longer had access to the kernel developers (legally) and was looking to move it to the Acis or Parasolid kernels. His comment was it was easier to port to Parasolid and it was more capable than Acis but it was more expensive by a lot. The original choice of C3D was relative cost, that was how it was going to be brought to the masses. I don't recall what choice he made.