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Rendering solution - with up to a $ 1,000 budget

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acejake1000

Member
Rendering solution - with up to a $ 1,000 budget

To gain the full benefit of building 3D assemblies I want to replace the photo's we do for assembly manuals and brochures with more renderings which will save time in the long run.

While photorender has been interesting to use and is nicely integrated, it is low quality and not very reliable. I am afraid to base a lot of time on it as it does crash a great deal. I am not intersted in the work arounds mentioned in this forum as it will take too much time.

I use albre to design outdoor furniture, the product is wood, with metal fasteners. The assembly models are great, they take time and I would like to use them for other things other then mechanical.

If I have a budget of up to $ 1,000 for a photo render, which is easy to use for a group that will use it weekly to monthly vs daily and is high quality and rock solid. Does anyone have a suggestion. I have read through the forum but a lot of the suggestions were based on getting something for free or close to it. I am interested in getting products rendered in a production enviroment, with out the limitations and non-support of something line photorender. The less file translation the better from a time saving standpoint.

Thank you for your time
 
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MilesH

Alibre Super User


If you want the highest quality and don't mind long render times, then consider Maxwell. Translation is a 2 stage process, though...

As it's outdoor furniture, look at Bunkspeed Hypershot. HDRI illumination, only, but it does import STEP files. I have no personal experience with it (failed to get the demo license system working on my computer). It's new, though, so hardly rock solid... Worth a try, maybe.

Most of the mainstream ones can only be accessed through plug-ins to CG modelling programs, that's the problem...
 
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CGN

Senior Member


Hi acejake1000,

This are some products that reads files from alibre like iges, step and ACIS, there are difference between them, i think Have a look first at PatchWorks3D and ImageStudio, Cinema4D and Realsoft are more of "full solution" for rendering + animation this are more "all around" Rendering solutions that can read iges or step at least, it requires more work trying to learn than Patchworks3D or Imagestudio but will give you at the end more control on your final output (Renderings or animations).

There is no "Point and shoot" solution, but Patchworks or imagestudio may be close to that.

these are just few that may work for you, specially because they are capable to read files from alibre (iges, Step or Acis) directly.


Have a look at this software:

1 - Cinema4D + CAD Plug in (not sure if is under 1000 but works with stpe, iges and ACIS)

http://www.maxon.net/pages/products/edi ... ing_e.html

2- PatchWorks3D (real time rendering) it reads iges and step files

http://www.lumiscaphe.com/www4/EN_home.html

Video Demo:

http://www.tgs.com/products/patchwork_demo.html

3- http://www.realsoft.com/ + Plug in to read iges

4- Image Studio (Alias Owned now Autodesk) cost about 1500 I know is over your budget but much worth to look at it.

http://images.autodesk.com/emea_s_main/ ... ochure.pdf

http://www.novedge.com/products/1880/tab/1
 
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W. Wagelaar

Member


Acejake1000

I have had the same experience as you concerning Alibre Photorender (Industrial). It has very poor setting possibilities for lighting and shaders. Above that there is a complete lack of a good manual. To place a decall is a real puzzle and the overall results are far from realistic. Some years ago I started with ArtLantis v4.0 (http://www.abvent.com/support/forum/) which is an original render software for architectural work. I used it for my product presentations (laboratory instruments) and was happy with it. Untill they launced a total new version (ArtLantis R) with a totally new interface and very buggy. Since this new version I was looking for a quality replacement and have looked at Maxwell and Fryrender. These have astonishing good quality renders. The downside is that it takes a lot of time to get a good render. Rendertimes from a few hours untill 20-24 hours are no exception. So I decided to look further. Two months ago I bought Modo (http://forums.luxology.com/discussion/) which is actually a modelling program with a very good rendermachine. Though I am still in the learning fase, I am confident this is giving good results for my product presentations (manuals, folders, posters etc.). Positive thing is that they have (like Alibre) a very busy forum with a loth of supporting people. Perhaps it is a good idea to look at the Luxology gallery.
 
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scarr

Senior Member


You might want to take a look at TrueSpace from Caligari,
http://www.caligari.com/ -it's a very robust package and with the add-on import/export license should be able to handle the file types you need to get the job done.
 
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CGN

Senior Member


I used caligari to version 5.1 but was very buggy, i don't recommend it especially if you are looking for a easy to use (there is not such thing as an easy software, but truespace sure is a hard one to use)

Jian if you haven't installed yet TS3.2, don't even bother, try blender instead, the Interface is not so "friendly" but is more stable and complete than TS3.2, the latest version of Truespace looks very complete and maybe more stable and you can add VRAY to it but i still won't recommend it based on my experience with TS.
 
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Jian

Member
Re:

V-Ray vs POV-Ray

which is better for customer use or third party development?

CGN said:
I used caligari to version 5.1 but was very buggy, i don't recommend it especially if you are looking for a easy to use (there is not such thing as an easy software, but truespace sure is a hard one to use)

Jian if you haven't installed yet TS3.2, don't even bother, try blender instead, the Interface is not so "friendly" but is more stable and complete than TS3.2, the latest version of Truespace looks very complete and maybe more stable and you can add VRAY to it but i still won't recommend it based on my experience with TS.
Click to expand...
 
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MilesH

Alibre Super User


T-Flex CAD uses POV-Ray as a render solution.

V-Ray would be difficult to learn, I should imagine... lots of settings which bear absolutely no relation to the real world....

Which customer use are you thinking of?
 
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CGN

Senior Member


Jian

"Customer use"

If you are looking for the least learning curve, then None, all have a learning curve (actually POV is really bad as learning curve becouse it has no interface), I like HyperShot technology, also Patchworks 3D, Autodesk Image studio, but not sure if they "play" with any video card, like you can expect from cinema 4D or 3Dmax or any other rendering application.

"third party development"

there is nothing to develop for VRay or POV if is going to be used for rendering, by this what i mean is that Vray or POV are "finished" products, the only work left is for example if alibre want to use this application someone has to develop a "plug in" or develop it as an "add on" so you can apply material prepare scenes add textures etc.., I'm not sure who is in charge of such either alibre writes the code or VRAY build the plug in (i think they write the plug in, for brazil and vray i recall they had a poll on what applications to develop a plug in for). for POV is free and all you need i to write a code that can use Alibre models (if we use Alibre as an example), so I'm not a programing guy so i not sure what code is hard to use or how to write a plug in.

"V-Ray vs POV-Ray"

VRAY

I personally think the problem with the rendering application mostly is the lack of an easy way of read formats like step iges or acis, there are good applications and even so i don't think they are perfect yet.


MilesH

"V-Ray would be difficult to learn, I should imagine... lots of settings which bear absolutely no relation to the real world.... "

Maybe not for the average user, but all those "bells and whistles" that looks like they do nothing, do provide settings that can take renderings to higher level and if you are a user of vray as example like any other software you will get to the point where you will use such extras.

is easy to use? not harder than any other render engine in the market, the actual interface is what it really makes the rendering easy to use. and vray is like photoworks, select surface, apply material, set lights...render.

is the scene settings that makes the rendering, this is were no matter what rendering you are using, is the user that apply the best of the techniques that can produce a good rendering.

as i always say there is not such thing as "point and shoot", technologies like hypershot or patchworks 3d (to name few) maybe close

for alibre users looking for the easiest way to get the best results with minimum effort is to stay with photoworks, because everything will require some extra work.
 
A

acejake1000

Member
Thank you for your suggestions

After spending time on all of the sites that were recommended, I have decided to start an evaluation with two.

Most of the s/w was going to cost about $ 1300 to $ 1500 to get the rendering, materials and file plug ins.

Given the time it takes for a trial I wanted to cut the list down to two. Perhaps one that does rendering and animation for "product fly by's" and one that does not have animation (with the idea it is less expensive and will get what I need done now)

For rendering, animation and modeling I decided on Cinema 4D. It is attractive to me because it has a growth path with additional modules, and it is priced on a modular basis, and it appears to have a strong following and 3rd party support. The built in Animation would be handy for product fly overs. The core module is $ 895, but if using CAD one needs to buy the CAD disk for $ 595 which includes CAD file plug in's plus materials.

I chose MODO for the Modeling and Rendering trial as I thought I would try one without animation and one with. MODO has a compelling web site and allows one to use the s/w on multiple computers which is exactly how I work. The web site is very friendly and trusting and has a robust user forum. I could not find the file types supported on the web site, but I am assumming that it will support an Albre file type as it was recommended from an Albre user in this post and that is how I found the site. The cost is $ 895 and the next release will include some level of animation which I discovered at the end of my web evaluation. The next release will be provided free if one buys the current release.

Other comments from my evaluation for those that may be looking as well.

I tried to get a trial version of Bunkspeed Hypershot last week, but they never followed up with the "trial email" with instructions how to down load, and the key, so I did not want to waste more time with them.

I did not try Maxwell or Fryrender due to the reported Multi-hour render times, reported earlier in this post.

Gamma Ray was too expensive $ 2700.

Patchworks had a weak user forum with only a handful of posts and did not have a precense in the U.S. at all. The price was north of $ 1200

I liked what I saw at Realsoft, they also have student teacher version which is probably a no brainer for the student at $ 300. Othewise when one adds up the commercial prices it is north of $ 1000. This will be worth another look.

Imagestudio was attractive from the standpoint that the price included everything one would want for rendering, that is Materials, CAD file types etc. and it appears to be designed for CAD folks rather then artists which may be important? At $ 1500 + it was expensive but not unreasonable given that it is a complete package. My main concern was that you are stranded with this product. Autocad has a product mindset rather then a module mind set. If you want animation one would need to step up to a multi-thousand $$ product with another name, they have three that render and they are in the $ 4k ++ range if I remember correctly.

I found myself making very subjective decisions in some of this analysis, as one would expect, the web sites make many claims that are similar. Examples easy to use, fastest rendering, updated Pipeline tools etc. Also I must say I am a novice so a lof of the terms are not meaninful to me yet. However after reviewing the sites seveal times each I did become more buzz word knowledgeable.

It is clear that this is a competitive but growing space and the pace of releases and new featues appears to be very high compared to other s/w sites.

Now, on to my trial, hope Modo has a IGES, STEP, or AGIS import, this is my first choice for a trial due to price, web site dynamics are excellent and the next release will have some animation.
 
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MilesH

Alibre Super User
Re: Thank you for your suggestions

acejake1000 said:
Now, on to my trial, hope Modo has a IGES, STEP, or AGIS import, this is my first choice for a trial due to price, web site dynamics are excellent and the next release will have some animation.
Click to expand...

I very much doubt it - still, this is no longer a problem: http://www.sycode.com/news/31_jul_2007.htm

You haven't mentioned the photo-real quality of the renders, as an important factor for you, so I assume it isn't. Yes, Maxwell and Fry have long render times, but the quality is commensurate... Also, consider the set-up time...
 
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acejake1000

Member
Thanks for the Sycode Site,

MilesH

could you elaborate regarding, "considering setup time". Are you suggesting that Maxwell setup time is far less then others.

Rendering quality is one of the primary reasons from moving from Alibre Photo Render. All of the sites I visited have examples of tremendously high quality renders. While I am sure I do not need the worlds best, I would like something of reasonable print quality and that I can use in brochures and manuals. I am not sure how to quantify the quality against render times. Maybe Rhinoserous, with Flamingo, and Penguin are a good way to go, they seem to be very popular, and they use a maxwell plug in for rendering?
 
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MilesH

Alibre Super User
Re: Thanks for the Sycode Site,

acejake1000 said:
MilesH
could you elaborate regarding, "considering setup time". Are you suggesting that Maxwell setup time is far less then others.
Click to expand...

Less than other high end ones, for sure. Also, the inputs are the equivalents of physical/photographic units, which makes everything easier to grasp.. and remember.

It's no good comparing galleries without knowing how much skill and experience you need to get the results exhibited there...

I think the only ones which will give you anything remotely approaching photo-real, without a lot of experience, are Maxwell, Fry, and Hypershot.
 
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mattyfatbags

Member


Ace,
I also have a need for a photo-realistic rendering program. I'm just now finishing up my first model in Alibre that I want to have rendered. So, in about a week I'll be starting the demo / evaluation process you're now in.

My competition uses Caligari TrueSpace. It creates VERY good renderings. However, I've spent about 3-4 days trying to work with the program and I absolutely hate it. It's just not for CAD guys. It's for animation and graphics people.

I'll either get back to this thread in a couple weeks or create my own. Nice to know I've got someone else going down the same path :)
 
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