Revision tracking - again!

[simonb65]

Alibre have their own customer base: either hobbyists or smaller companies.

Be interesting to see the percentages of each Alibre customer type, i.e. Atom3D/Pro/Expert and if they are Individual/Hobby, Small Business (<10 employees), SME (<100 employees), Large Corporation, etc. plus what is the focused target audience? i.e. Largest user base or Largest revenue stream. The latter implies Pro Business users and multiple seats. Be interested to know if there is an active marketing push into the Pro business sector or if the model is to just let customers (from whatever background) come and find Alibre. Saying all that, we'll never get to find out!

 

[bigseb]

Be interesting to see the percentages of each Alibre customer type, i.e. Atom3D/Pro/Expert and if they are Individual/Hobby, Small Business (<10 employees), SME (<100 employees), Large Corporation, etc. plus what is the focused target audience? i.e. Largest user base or Largest revenue stream. The latter implies Pro Business users and multiple seats. Be interested to know if there is an active marketing push into the Pro business sector or if the model is to just let customers (from whatever background) come and find Alibre. Saying all that, we'll never get to find out!

I was thinking the same thing. I do know that Autodesk has an entire department dedicated to nothing other than trying to get companies to ditch their current software in favour of Autodesk. I doubt Alibre has those kind of resources. And maybe that isn't even the niche that Alibre wants to cater to.

 

[JST]

Business users are not a "niche market".

And, if a package has a lot of business users, the credibility of it for other users is improved. It's like getting sports endorsers for shoes that most folks will only use to walk around in.

That's the problem though, isn't it? Larger companies that require an in-depth file management system for their CAD are already using 'Big CAD'. ...............I get we might have different needs here but ultimately I reckon Alibre will cater to whatever sells more seats.

The thing is, one does not have to eliminate the other.

And a company does not have to be very big to have/need at least "credible" file management. Lots of "Alibre sized" companies need something which does not automatically "spray files all over the disk", the way Alibre does.

Think for a moment about what it would take.... A project file? Just default all saves/fetches to the current directory, INSTEAD OF the last place that particular type of save went. Allow them from elsewhere, but default back. The user can always set to a different place if there are many to do, AND IT WOULD ALWAYS BE KNOWN WHERE THEY WERE GOING. That last bit is a BIG DEAL. I am getting SO tired of having to search for lost files.
Let the user select that mode, or stay with the present mess if they prefer.

A Library? Just ALLOW the user to set up a directory that will NOT be automatically saved back to, and which requires an added action to gain access to for editing. No obligation or force used to require that for all users.

These seem so simple in concept, and not that hard in practice to program. Most of it is just setting defaults, some is file system programming, not the hardest stuff to do. And it would be SO much nicer to use, even for the hobby user. I totally fail to understand the "armored wall of resistance" to these ideas.

Remember, I (and many others) can get Solidworks for $40 per year. Solidworks is not a hobby-oriented program.
We can keep Alibre for access to old files, but we do NOT NEED to keep up maintenance to do that. Something for the folks at Alibre to remember.

 

[bigseb]

The thing is, one does not have to eliminate the other.

And a company does not have to be very big to have/need at least "credible" file management. Lots of "Alibre sized" companies need something which does not automatically "spray files all over the disk", the way Alibre does.

Think for a moment about what it would take.... A project file? Just default all saves/fetches to the current directory, INSTEAD OF the last place that particular type of save went. Allow them from elsewhere, but default back. The user can always set to a different place if there are many to do, AND IT WOULD ALWAYS BE KNOWN WHERE THEY WERE GOING. That last bit is a BIG DEAL. I am getting SO tired of having to search for lost files.
Let the user select that mode, or stay with the present mess if they prefer.

A Library? Just ALLOW the user to set up a directory that will NOT be automatically saved back to, and which requires an added action to gain access to for editing. No obligation or force used to require that for all users.

These seem so simple in concept, and not that hard in practice to program. And SO much nicer to use, even for the hobby user. I totally fail to understand the "wall of resistance" to these ideas.

First of all I'm not resistant to the idea, I just think other things are more important. Secondly What we are talking about here could possibly require a complete overhaul of Alibre. Easy to talk about in a thread. Easy to implement? Maybe not so much.
Also I have never had to search for lost files. I know where my files are. System in place.

 

[bigseb]

At this rate we are getting new and improved drawings, material libraries, scripting, etc. Now there are cries for a file management system... have you guys (and gals?) seen what users of Solidworks, Solidedge, Catia, Creo, NX, et al can do in their part and sheet metal workspaces? They are light years ahead. Light years! How about we fix lofting (came up recently)? Or split line drafts? Or a split line wizard for very complex tooling? Folders in the design tree? Editing of booleans within the part file? Text on round surfaces? Stop twisting on circular sweeps?

There are a whole heap of improvements I need (and have been asking for years) as a tooling designer. File management is not something that will help me do my job any quicker.

 

[JST]

Sorry to contradict you, but you are definitely part of the wall of resistance, unwilling to have any change to what is arguably a counterproductive system that is KNOWN to lose sales.

This is NOT, contrary to what you keep claiming, any sort of a demand for file management. You really ought to read what I suggest, so that you could see what a simple thing it is. It is CHANGING DEFAULTS.... not rewriting ACIS.....

First of all I'm not resistant to the idea, I just think other things are more important. Secondly What we are talking about here could possibly require a complete overhaul of Alibre. Easy to talk about in a thread. Easy to implement? Maybe not so much.
Also I have never had to search for lost files. I know where my files are. System in place.

It's mostly setting defaults..... No clue how that would require a top to bottom overhaul, unless Alibre is in "spaghetti code", which some of it might be.

As for searching for files, it is usually with a different export type, which gets sent to the last place such an export was sent. It is because I (unlike you) do not go through ALL the possible exports and saves and manually set them to the current directory every time I switch directories. And I should not need to, nor should you.

Blame assigned to user is unhelpful... as is smug assertion of a superior system. I get what you are saying, but Alibre makes it NECESSARY to actively check every save to be sure it is going where you want. This is silly.... you should be able to set it and use it. It's a computer.... it is supposed to make the job easier., not act to try to counteract your wishes just to see if you are still watching.

 

[bigseb]

...but Alibre makes it NECESSARY to actively check every save to be sure it is going where you want. This is silly.... you should be able to set it and use it. It's a computer.... it is supposed to make the job easier., not act to try to counteract your wishes just to see if you are still watching.

I agree with that. Ulitmately though I can deal with it if I could get the actual design out quicker.

 

[swertel]

Interestingly enough, in my experience with my clients, they spend more time with file management and the hassles associated with it than they do designing.

While I agree I'd like to see maturity in Alibre (long overdue because of the dark ages of previous ownership), there is a significant productivity boost by having a clean file management system in place that is native to the design tool. I look forward to Alibre developing something that eases my administrative burden.

 

[TimoCAD]

What about this one - maybe there can be some synergies between alibre and wouldbepdm?

https://radiorisonanza.wixsite.com/wouldbepdm

 

[trevithick]

Be interesting to see the percentages of each Alibre customer type, i.e. Atom3D/Pro/Expert and if they are Individual/Hobby, Small Business (<10 employees), SME (<100 employees), Large Corporation, etc. plus what is the focused target audience? i.e. Largest user base or Largest revenue stream. The latter implies Pro Business users and multiple seats. Be interested to know if there is an active marketing push into the Pro business sector or if the model is to just let customers (from whatever background) come and find Alibre. Saying all that, we'll never get to find out!

This is my response to both simonb65 and bigseb's question on users:

I'm a hobbyist who fires up Alibre Design once or twice a year to design something stuck in my head. Due to lack of continuity, my skills don't progress, and I am often frustrated with my results. Nobody's fault but my own. Having said that, and after going through Tutorials and videos countless times, it points to a failure to introduce concepts properly. There are usually examples, but with no explanation for where and why you would need them. For example, nowhere in the video does "Project to Sketch" say why I would need to do that, and what it accomplishes. This is simply one of many examples where a proper introduction to a concept is lacking.

Yep, I'm still a neophyte after all these years, but part of reason is I get frustrated and quit.

Mark - Hobbyist

Alienware 17
Intel® Core i7 4700MQ 2.40 GHz
16 GB RAM - DDR3 - 1600MHz
nVidia GTX 780M - ? GB
Win10 Pro 64 bit

 

[JST]

...........

going through Tutorials and videos countless times, it points to a failure to introduce concepts properly. There are usually examples, but with no explanation for where and why you would need them. For example, nowhere in the video does "Project to Sketch" say why I would need to do that, and what it accomplishes. This is simply one of many examples where a proper introduction to a concept is lacking.
.........

This one is a "yes, and no" deal.

I do not think the whys and whens are right for the program help. Maybe or maybe not for the tutorial, except in passing. Those are indeed things that are better handled in tutorials, but a special type tutorial, which I suspect will not happen, for a number of good reasons.

What is left? Something that I brought up years ago, and which due to the collapse of Alibre under 3D Systems, is not really a viable proposition any more, even though it could be a wonderful marketing tool.

What's that?

It is the "Alibre for Dummies" book. There is not one, but it was needed back then, and still might help sell the program. Probably it should now be "Alibre Atom for Dummies", since that is the way Alibre seems to want to go. Such books go through all the commands, but also add the "why you use this and not that", "how you do this", "how you CAN do that, even though there is no command for it", etc.

If it covers both Atom and Expert, then it might sell expert, or it might turn folks off who do need expert. Probably Atom needs it more, I see more Atom questions here than Expert, which may mean there are more Atom users overall, or more Atom users who have not used CAD. Probably both.

 

[trevithick]

I buy that, and I'd buy the book...