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Version 10 and general rant

Version 10 and general rant

I am getting sick of bug and problems in Alibre that have not been fixed for years now, simply ignored and I can't keep it in any longer.

First let me explain how I use Alibre so you can understand how important it is to my work.

I have been using Alibre on a daily basis now for two years. Since version 8 I think. I am the sole user of Alibre in a small company.

Most all of my work involves electronic PCB assemblies with models of connectors. Those are placed inside enclosures with faceplates designed in Alibre. The final assembly includes screws and brackets.

I split my repositories between: current projects, Nuts and bolts, existing products, connectors, electronic parts, reference parts, and completed projects.
Most all of the repositories share parts from one or more repositories.

I use Alibre for nearly 100% of the files I need for production of parts.
The only exception being silkscreen images. There is pretty much no feature in Alibre that I don't use daily. I rely on the repositories to keep revisions in order and associated with the correct part numbers. I use the assemblies, exploded views, and BOM files to make documents for manufacturing and production of parts.

Now onto the things that have been annoying me for years, have been mentioned to tech-support and on these forums with no resolution as of yet.

Memory leak:
Alibre has claimed before that they have a clean-up feature that constantly lowers the memory usage as you work. I don't believe this, because as I am typing this Alibre is consuming 204MB of memory, with nothing but the repository window open. In the same state at start-up it consumes 40mb.

Any time I am working in Alibre, it slowly consumes more and more memory until it reaches 300+ MB. At which point is slows to a crawl.
My only solution is to save, kill the process, restart Alibre, and re-open my file. I find myself doing this about every 20 minutes when I work in Alibre non-stop. (Even on a single relatively simple file)



2D Drawing bugs:
Sometimes when you dimension a drawing, Alibre generates a point that is associated with that dimension. But the point is dis-associated with the actual model. The location of this point is NOT updated when the model is edited. This causes errors to be made by the manufacture reading the drawing because they cannot tell where the dimensions is referring.

Hole centers become dimensional nightmares:
Alibre adds center marks to hole locations automatically, great feature.
However if you try to add a dimension to a hole but accidentally click on the "Hole center callout" then the dimension tool just makes five new disassociated points, and dimensions erroneously from the neared point, NOT the center of the hole. The only way to get the center of the hole is to zoom in and select the circle very carefully.

A new bug is that if I move a dimension, a ghost image is left behind, requiring me to refresh the image constantly. Again loosing more and more time due to trying to work around the program, not with the program.
 


Originate dimension bugs:
Originate dimension is a great feature, but again it has many bugs, mostly again, due to disassociated dots that become markers for dimensions, yet are not updated when the model is updated.

I recently shrunk a chassis from 220mm wide to 218mm wide. A tiny change. But when I opened the 2D Drawing the originated point, which was along the left most flange was NOT moved along with this change. Instead it pointed to a non-existent edge. This required me completely redo every dimension along that axis.
This not only causes me to loose time, but causes our manufacture confusion as what should be a small dimensional correction looks like a complete re-do.



There are other problems that happen randomly such as trying to continue a "originate dimension" chain still gives Null error, and again I have to save, quit, try again. Most of the time again required complete re-draws.

Drawing styles:
The 2D Drawing portion STILL won't default to my desired drawing style, and now even if I do change the drawing style when I make a new drawing, existing dimensions such as hole call outs are NOT updated to the new style. I have to delete the dimensions and start over.

Version 10 (And well all the versions previous so far) is just making me question using Alibre in the first place. We choose alibre simply on price, but so far I am not sure how much time it has cost our company in waiting on refreshes, constant errors, quiting and re-starts.

I have to say I am concerned in the direction alibre is taking. It is great that they offer a free version to help people get started in CAD, but when you have spend thousands over several years for upgrades which DONT fix existing bugs, then you begin to question why you continue to use the program at all.

/Edit in case you are wondering my system specs:
Window XP
Intel Dual-core 3.2Ghz
2GB of Ram
8800GTX graphics card
 

jipeess

Member
bugs..

glad (?) to hear this is happening to others as well,
been wondering why no one else reported theese flaws&bugs

js
 

kdevoe

Senior Member


I agree. I have had vendors call me to ask where that dimension line is going. When I open the drawing I see that it has gone into no man's land.
It seems that when AD makes a new version many basic things are overlooked, like the hidden and phantom circular line issue I have complained about. Vendors are calling to say that the drawing is incorrect and they cannot understand what I am trying to show them. Many times it is down right embarrassing.

Alibre should stop adding new features and corrct all the other basic issues that have been created. Let's get down to basics Alibre

Kevin
 


I have to say I am happy with the response and attention that Alibre has shown. I spent an hour on the phone today discussing my issues with Alibre, and confirming a few bugs. (disassociated dimensions, nodes left behind)

As far as memory leak I am trying a recommended program: winxplauncher that will lock Alibre to a single core rather then letting windows switch it around. I am also backing off my 8800 to version 7 drivers.

I will keep you all updated as things move on.
 

moyesboy

Alibre Super User


It is vey difficult to assess this sort of issue before you really start to hammer a cad system with daily use. But once you are into daily use then you are comitted, and changing to another system involves a lot of pain and downtime before you are up to the speed you were before (even if that speed seemed crippled by bugs and slowdowns).

It does seem to me that Alibre suffers more than the more costly cad systems with problems doing the basics. It also lacks some basic functionality in the 2D that really should be there (the dimension styles, linking to an exterenally referenced files for std notes, drawing frames logos, automatic insertion of date, etc etc etc etc.).

So it is quite liekly that if you are winding the handle and spewing out drawings Alibre might not be as cost effective as it first seems.

Alibre is no doubt cost effective where you are thoughtfully designing a small assembly of 3D parts (the sheet metal is not effective though).

For most of us we are working somwhere between these extremes. you quite effectively design the assembly, but then you are dissapponted when it comes to get the job out the door as a set of drawings for manufacture. It does not take log to rack up $4000 or even £4000 worth of lost time and start looking enviously at other cad systems. What you can't tell is how much of their day users of those other cad systems are spending struggling with their systems unless one off them will let you look over their shulder for a few hours. The vendors demo is always to slick to be meaningful!
 

Adam_N

Member


There was a "poll" not long ago. While granted not many people voted in it, but of the ones that did, ~75% wanted to get what was in AD working properly over adding new features.

If Alibre can get the basics cleaned up so they work well and efficiently, they really could be a major player in the market. As was pointed out, price is a part of the equation, but not the entire answer.

I am still holding out in hopes that we will see a major improvement when the program is moved over to .NET
 

CGN

Senior Member


It may be that is not an easy task (coding) a complex software but this situation looks like "turbobloat" aka. TurboCAD where it has the most features, bells and whistles clearly ahead of Autocad but buggy.
 

osphoto

Member


I to find Alibre doing the memory consumption. I can watch it grab and release along with CPU at 99%.

Lately, I've been using Albire daily. Some drawings are fine for many hours, others cause the system to craw. Then I have to do the Alibre time waste routine. Save/exit/exit/Start Fresh. Or ctrl+alt+delete/Kill Alibre.

I like cool features and new toys like the rest of us but I'd rather have a solid working product.

I hate having to redo my sketches and waste my time because of some "gotcha".

I made the purchase of Albire based on: They are an US based company Located in my home state and they spoke English, clearly when I spoke to them. And yes, price was a huge plus! Also, they provided visual learning aids. That was a huge hit with me.

I want a working product that doesn't force me to waste my time on having to force quite the product, restart and force me to wait minutes to save.

My frustrations get me to wondering about Rhino or Bob CAD in how their user's daily designs go?

I'm an Alibre fan but on those difficult days I'm wanting to try a different product.
 

indesign

Alibre Super User


Bobcad is not parametric designng so you may not wish to go that direction for doing modling.

It does have a few nice features for surface manipulation like being able to take apart a solid and assembly different faces back into another solid or creation of simple solid by direct input.

Also a few others but you can not do something simple like change the size of a corner radius or generate a drawing from a solid part.
 

scarr

Senior Member


I'll enter the fray with a few observations. I find that if I constrain my sketches in the 3D workbench properly, dimensioning in the drawing workbench goes a lot more smoothly. The dimensions are less prone to inadvertant changes if I dimension to the features themselves, i.e. select an edge line and then a circle (not the dot in the center, but the circle itself, and then select the type of dimension I want from the flyout panel, such as Line to Center.
Yes the ghosting of text is a little annoying but easily solved with a click of the mouse on one of the zoom commands. Hopefully this will be solved in the near future.
If the sheetmetal package seems limited it's only because it duplicates the operations one might normally find in a small sheet metal shop, shearing, bending, punching, drilling, cutting, etc. and not operations such as deep drawing, roll forming, hydroforming, stampings, etc. which are only looked at as being sheetmetal operations because the material in use is usually a sheet of metal. Packages that deliver such functionality are five times or more the price of Alibre. And the sheetmetal package is usually a separate workbench requireing another large investment in licensing fees. I know of one that charges between $14,000.00 and $50,000.00 depending on the desired level of functionality in the sheetmetal package.
As for the drawing package, I was able to create and detail over eighty drawings (assembly and detail) in a little over two weeks of part time work.
I've worked with many CAD packages in my life, AutoCad, Inventor, Computervision, Pro-E, and Catia V4 and V5, and everyone of them had problems with certain aspect of part design and detailing. We used Workarounds to get past these, and treid to make sure those workarounds eventually became program functionality.
I'm well satisfied with Alibre, and have the utmost faith in their ability, and desire to correct the flaws being pointed out. One thing I would ask is are you registering these complaints/observations/suggeations, thru the problem reporting tool? This is the best way to make sure these thing get registered and cataloged.
Also keep in mind the type of work Alibre was designed for, and that proper, sketching and modeling practises are of the utmost importance if you want a model that's stable and easy to edit. Same holds true for drawings.
 

WoodWorks

Alibre Super User


I am hoping that most of the minor annoying items will be cleared up once Alibre removes the last of the Java code. I can understand reluctance to update code that will soon be replaced.

I have also worked with many CAD packages, and many from the days of $30,000 workstations. All software has issues, and I think Alibre has been doing a good job addressing those issues. Not that I don't get miffed when I encounter an issue, but with experience I have learned where a lot of them are and how to deal with them. I was even thinking about starting a thread on work techniques to use to avoid those issues I commonly encounter.

Every time I get a little frustrated from another lockup or crash, I think about the bottom line price of the quotes I received when looking for an alternative to Alibre.

However, once the transition is finally made to .NET, Alibre please put the priority on fixing outstanding issues and stability and leave enhancements until the next release.
 

osphoto

Member


A thread on good work techniques / work arounds would be good.

My idea of designing certainly isn't the same as others. This is my first CAD software, so my design methods are from Firefox and various other photo programs. Of course there was those few years in hight school and college classes on mechanical engineering. But that was pencil & paper.
 

patmul

Member


I have also noted some serious CPU-thrashing issues with AD-10. It occurs most often with my Space Navigator attached...which I no longer use with AD. But also on random, unpredictable occasions, AD will end up thrashing on even a very simple part without the Space Navigator attached.

I have seen on rare occasion alibre.exe CPU usage jump to 85%-95% and stay there when working a very small, simple part...slowing the whole system to a crawl.

I keep hoping to find a reproducible procedure which reliably triggers the thrashing, but so far no luck.

I usually cure the problem by shutting down AD and restarting. It can be very annoying.

I've coded C and C++ programs for years, and this behavior indicates to me that AD might well be hitting endless memory page-faults because a linked list or buffer or something is sitting across a memory-page border...or doing endless cache writes and reloads...or some similar memory issue. I have certainly seen this behavior in other programs under development. And, since dynamic buffers and lists almost NEVER use the same memory spaces or page locations from invocation to invocation, the problem appears on the surface to be quite random.

I would hope the AD developers would be able to hunt this behavior down...no matter how random it is or how seldom it may occur. Enough of us have experienced this problem for them to take serious notice. There are lots of memory/runtime analysis tools available for this exact kind of issue.

FWIW

-Patrick-
 

indesign

Alibre Super User


Maybe we could develop a pattern for them to find. It seems to me to occur mainly when editing individual parts from within an assembly.
 

cnc

Senior Member


You are absolutely right Tim, I only seem to get memory overload and cpu maxed out which sometimes results in system lock ups when editing parts in an assembly or when using configerations.

Colin
 

jguest

Member
FIX THE BUGS

A guy shows up at the feed store with a horse, bragging how great he is. Works all day, seems to know what to do, great temperament, couldn't ask for a better horse. A man hears him bragging and tries to buy the horse. Offers 500. No way. 1000. No way, he's not for sale. Man I'll give you TWO thousand for that horse. DEAL. SOLD.

New owner shows up a few days later at the feed store. Complains the horse won't work. Bit him. Kicked him. WORTHLESS!

Old owner says, "man, you keep talkin like that, you ain NEVER gonna sell that horse."

Anybody want to buy a copy of this super stable, well designed, professional 3D CAD software? Oh yeah, the upgrades are always well thought out and debugged before release. That's the best part.
 
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