What's up with API?
- Thread starter cclark440
- Start date
I guess no answer is more irritating than the answer you don't want to hear.
With no answer it is like they don't even want to acknowledge you, or hope that if they are quiet long enough, the issue will quietly go away.
At least if they just came out and said, "We no longer support an API interface", we will know and stop trying.
I would even accept, "We are currently revising/updating that API for V2013", which is still an open ended response.
I guess I am just bitter because I remember what it was like 7 years ago, and I knew who most of the support staff, and managers where.
I remember the day that Paul Greyson came to see me, sat in my office, and asked me how I thought Alibre could improve and where I would like to see Alibre go.
Oh well, that's what happens when company's grow to fast, they loose that personal touch. Speaking from experience, people are willing to pay more for a product if they know they are going to get excellent service.
Hell the company I work for is only in existence because or big corporate competitors didn't understand that decades ago, and still don't.
With no answer it is like they don't even want to acknowledge you, or hope that if they are quiet long enough, the issue will quietly go away.
At least if they just came out and said, "We no longer support an API interface", we will know and stop trying.
I would even accept, "We are currently revising/updating that API for V2013", which is still an open ended response.
I guess I am just bitter because I remember what it was like 7 years ago, and I knew who most of the support staff, and managers where.
I remember the day that Paul Greyson came to see me, sat in my office, and asked me how I thought Alibre could improve and where I would like to see Alibre go.
Oh well, that's what happens when company's grow to fast, they loose that personal touch. Speaking from experience, people are willing to pay more for a product if they know they are going to get excellent service.
Hell the company I work for is only in existence because or big corporate competitors didn't understand that decades ago, and still don't.
swertel
Alibre Super User
Same here. Never a fanboy, but always a proponent of Alibre because they had great support and it appeared that you were something more to them than a sales number. Now, I just use Alibre because it is affordable, but "bang-for-the-buck" only goes so far. They are still way behind the development curve of what I consider their competition. Alibre prices keep going up and competitor prices keep going down. That "bang-for-the-buck" value statement is nearing its inflection point and I can start riding on another curve.
I feel the same way. I always told be people to look at Alibre if they were considering some of the other packages. Most of what they need to do, Alibre would have worked well.
In the early days I would really stress how great the support was. I can't do that anymore.
I have even sent messages directly to people that would have or could get an answer for me, and have never heard back.
I wonder if I bought a fancy 3D printer if I would get any better service?
In the early days I would really stress how great the support was. I can't do that anymore.
I have even sent messages directly to people that would have or could get an answer for me, and have never heard back.
I wonder if I bought a fancy 3D printer if I would get any better service?
swertel
Alibre Super User
By no means do I think I'm entitled to some special treatment. But, considering I was (definitely past tense) on a first name basis with many Alibre employees, and this is the level of service that is provided in general, I can't imagine how a new customer must feel after the "new car smell" period wears off.
For example, look at how many posts pop up regarding Motion 2.0. I understand potential delays in development cycles, but to not have your own add-ons ready to go with a major release is plain old stupid. And then to go this long without any notice to customers regarding its status. For as far as Alibre Design has come in the past 2 years, there is still many areas of neglect within the software. And I am amused by the fact that enhancement requests I made 5 years ago that "would never be a part of Alibre Design because there is no use for them and we aren't focused on that group" are now features of the latest release.
I would like to call that short sighted, but then I get into wondering what the vision of the company really is. Actually, based on their laser focus for cheap 3D printing, I really do wonder what their vision for CAD is.
For example, look at how many posts pop up regarding Motion 2.0. I understand potential delays in development cycles, but to not have your own add-ons ready to go with a major release is plain old stupid. And then to go this long without any notice to customers regarding its status. For as far as Alibre Design has come in the past 2 years, there is still many areas of neglect within the software. And I am amused by the fact that enhancement requests I made 5 years ago that "would never be a part of Alibre Design because there is no use for them and we aren't focused on that group" are now features of the latest release.
I would like to call that short sighted, but then I get into wondering what the vision of the company really is. Actually, based on their laser focus for cheap 3D printing, I really do wonder what their vision for CAD is.
Ha, guys take a chill pill! This post was made on the 18th. Clark, I assume your reference to "sent an email to people at Alibre" referred to a PM you sent me on the forum last week. I have been on (much needed) vacation in Europe all of last week.
Our API still works. If you have a specific request for the API then let us know - much of our specific API development comes from requests. I assume you have my email - maxf@alibre.com. Or Ryan Montgomery, our Product Manager, at ryanm@alibre.com. Or Travis Metcalf, one of our developers that works with the API at travism@alibre.com. Or you can call me at 214 389 9083.
Scott, our vision for CAD for our next release is to focus like a laser on 2D and various types of functionality that I've explained in other posts already. I'm not sure what requests you made 5 years ago, but clearly 5 years is forever in software and in CAD...if half a decade ago we weren't prepared to make a tradeoff for your request versus others in the pipeline and now we are, then great. However, "shortsighted" is probably a bit extreme. Not really sure where our "laser focus" about 3D printing came from either - the only thing we've done is add a section to our website and put 3D printers along side our software and other existing products in our emails. In no way does it have anything to do with sacrificing our CAD development. Regarding Motion - it's not ready, and when it is we will let you know. I'm not putting a date on it. Been there, done that. I'll tell you that we're playing with new builds of Motion 2 on a pretty consistent basis.
Max
Our API still works. If you have a specific request for the API then let us know - much of our specific API development comes from requests. I assume you have my email - maxf@alibre.com. Or Ryan Montgomery, our Product Manager, at ryanm@alibre.com. Or Travis Metcalf, one of our developers that works with the API at travism@alibre.com. Or you can call me at 214 389 9083.
Scott, our vision for CAD for our next release is to focus like a laser on 2D and various types of functionality that I've explained in other posts already. I'm not sure what requests you made 5 years ago, but clearly 5 years is forever in software and in CAD...if half a decade ago we weren't prepared to make a tradeoff for your request versus others in the pipeline and now we are, then great. However, "shortsighted" is probably a bit extreme. Not really sure where our "laser focus" about 3D printing came from either - the only thing we've done is add a section to our website and put 3D printers along side our software and other existing products in our emails. In no way does it have anything to do with sacrificing our CAD development. Regarding Motion - it's not ready, and when it is we will let you know. I'm not putting a date on it. Been there, done that. I'll tell you that we're playing with new builds of Motion 2 on a pretty consistent basis.
Max
swertel
Alibre Super User
Max,
I don't see anything happening internally at Alibre. I only see what happens externally, mainly in the way of press releases and newsletters. Lately, those two mediums have mentioned Alibre Design in context of another 3D Systems' rapid prototyping acquisition or bundled deals that include AD with a 3D printer. The development group may be focused on 2D - which I am really excited about - but marketing is clearly focused on 3D printing. Since I only get the marketing news, you can see why my perspective leads me to believe AD is becoming the red-headed step child of 3D Systems as they focus on promoting 3D printing more than 3D geometry creation.
The short-sighted reference is accurate, I'm afraid. I requested BASIC surfacing features many many years ago. There are manufacturing techniques -- like forging, molding, and casting -- that can create "solid" structures that cannot be modeled in a parametric history-based solids modeler using only solids-based features. There needs to be basic surfacing features in order to create geometry that matches the physical end item. When I wrote that request, I was told that Alibre is a solids modeler and will NEVER have surfacing. NEVER is an long time and it was quite short sighted that a management representative from Alibre would be so bold to make that statement. I wasn't asking for G5 surfacing features or any industrial design tools, just basic surface modeling tools I need to create geometry that accurately represents mechanical parts. And now that AD has basic surfacing features, it needs the basic surfacing inspection features to go with them. Surface features should not have been released without a robust way to check the surface quality: curvature combs, zebra stripes, parting lines, etc.
I'm going to make a really bold statement here -- I think Alibre has lost its niche. I would really like to hear Alibre's mission and/or vision statement. Where do you think your core competencies are? Five years ago, your core competency was not CAD. It was excellent technical support and a creating a fabulous community. Alibre still can't compete on a 1-to-1 basis against ingrained seats. Thankfully, that was never their focus. But during the last couple years the level of technical support has diminished. It has become much less personal. It used to feel like Alibre felt the same pain as its customers when the customer had a problem with AD. Now, it feels like Alibre considers customer requests more like nagging and interfering with Alibre's plan. I want to be clear and state that I don't think this is actually true, but that is currently my perception. As you know, perception often trumps truth in this context.
And in terms of community, although the number of daily posts on this website has increased, I don't see many responses directly from Alibre except when you show up. I don't even see many responses in the private moderator's forum. I don't see much casual conversation on the forums anymore. I used to actually know about the members here. That's no longer the case. I would like to say it's just me, but I still have personal connections to other people I've never met personally on other professional and CAD forums. It is THIS community that has apparently lost its sense of community. Maybe not lost it completely, but diminished from the days I remember.
Finally, what about the API? I haven't seen anything about updates to the API to go with this release. Where do I find information on any new hooks that have been added to go along with the new features. Have improvements been made to the API to better support 3rd party developers? Is there someone at Alibre Tech Support whose sole purpose is to focus on the API? If they are not busy answering calls, they could spend their working hours developing training material and examples so weekend coders like me stand a better chance of actually producing usable code.
I don't see anything happening internally at Alibre. I only see what happens externally, mainly in the way of press releases and newsletters. Lately, those two mediums have mentioned Alibre Design in context of another 3D Systems' rapid prototyping acquisition or bundled deals that include AD with a 3D printer. The development group may be focused on 2D - which I am really excited about - but marketing is clearly focused on 3D printing. Since I only get the marketing news, you can see why my perspective leads me to believe AD is becoming the red-headed step child of 3D Systems as they focus on promoting 3D printing more than 3D geometry creation.
The short-sighted reference is accurate, I'm afraid. I requested BASIC surfacing features many many years ago. There are manufacturing techniques -- like forging, molding, and casting -- that can create "solid" structures that cannot be modeled in a parametric history-based solids modeler using only solids-based features. There needs to be basic surfacing features in order to create geometry that matches the physical end item. When I wrote that request, I was told that Alibre is a solids modeler and will NEVER have surfacing. NEVER is an long time and it was quite short sighted that a management representative from Alibre would be so bold to make that statement. I wasn't asking for G5 surfacing features or any industrial design tools, just basic surface modeling tools I need to create geometry that accurately represents mechanical parts. And now that AD has basic surfacing features, it needs the basic surfacing inspection features to go with them. Surface features should not have been released without a robust way to check the surface quality: curvature combs, zebra stripes, parting lines, etc.
I'm going to make a really bold statement here -- I think Alibre has lost its niche. I would really like to hear Alibre's mission and/or vision statement. Where do you think your core competencies are? Five years ago, your core competency was not CAD. It was excellent technical support and a creating a fabulous community. Alibre still can't compete on a 1-to-1 basis against ingrained seats. Thankfully, that was never their focus. But during the last couple years the level of technical support has diminished. It has become much less personal. It used to feel like Alibre felt the same pain as its customers when the customer had a problem with AD. Now, it feels like Alibre considers customer requests more like nagging and interfering with Alibre's plan. I want to be clear and state that I don't think this is actually true, but that is currently my perception. As you know, perception often trumps truth in this context.
And in terms of community, although the number of daily posts on this website has increased, I don't see many responses directly from Alibre except when you show up. I don't even see many responses in the private moderator's forum. I don't see much casual conversation on the forums anymore. I used to actually know about the members here. That's no longer the case. I would like to say it's just me, but I still have personal connections to other people I've never met personally on other professional and CAD forums. It is THIS community that has apparently lost its sense of community. Maybe not lost it completely, but diminished from the days I remember.
Finally, what about the API? I haven't seen anything about updates to the API to go with this release. Where do I find information on any new hooks that have been added to go along with the new features. Have improvements been made to the API to better support 3rd party developers? Is there someone at Alibre Tech Support whose sole purpose is to focus on the API? If they are not busy answering calls, they could spend their working hours developing training material and examples so weekend coders like me stand a better chance of actually producing usable code.
I think you may be reading the tea leaves too closely related to our marketing. In reality all we've done is sprinkle in some stuff from a few other 3DS business units here and there in a newsletter and make a bundle of AD and a printer for people that want CAD and printers. We still sell and promote the software as a standalone as well - we have a few new products and we're talking about them. Far and away the lion share of our business is CAD software and will continue to be CAD software, so we have no intention of going off the deep end by focusing exclusively on 3D printers - that's what other 3DS units are for since that's all they do. Nonetheless people are buying them and we are selling them and it makes sense to talk about them alongside Alibre Design. 100% of our development and quality teams' time goes to CAD.
I won't disagree that the "NEVER" surfacing comment was probably silly. The "management representative" you're discussing was our old CEO that championed that notion. He hasn't been here for about 3 years... At the time he made those comments surfacing wasn't even on our radar in lieu of other things we had to do first, so "never" versus "at some point in the future with no chance of it happening within 5 years" are basically the same concept. Not sure if you remember drawings 5 years ago, or most anything else... I'll agree that this specific comment was short sighted.
I don't think our core competency has ever been exclusively great customer support or fostering a forum. People don't buy our software at the end of the day because someone is extra cheerful on the phone or we have a good forum - they have a job to do and we provide the tools to do it in a cost effective way. That's never really changed. I'm not sure how to respond to a qualitative statement like "over the last few years Alibre Support has become less personal". That may be true, maybe not. Different people probably have different opinions. We still have people here that spend an hour and a half with customers doing anything to figure out a problem or issue. And related to ingrained seats, no vendor is highly successful at competing against engrained seats at a company. It's a year sales cycle with 10 meetings and lots of triplicate approval forms etc. - it wouldn't be worth it to engage in that for us. If our total sale would be half a million bucks, then it might make sense, but that's not the case. Selling someone CAD software that already has CAD software is a job I do not envy - but we don't really focus on trying to do that like our competition does.
Now back to the topic - related to the API we typically release API documentation a little after a release. Sometimes we don't release new documentation if the additions were very small and more for internal use. I imagine we will be updating it at some point over the next few months, but any existing stuff you have should work and I doubt any mind-blowing API-driven functionality has been added this release. I know we've made some new calls available but they are, if I remember correctly, more for Motion and CAM to utilize.
Max
I won't disagree that the "NEVER" surfacing comment was probably silly. The "management representative" you're discussing was our old CEO that championed that notion. He hasn't been here for about 3 years... At the time he made those comments surfacing wasn't even on our radar in lieu of other things we had to do first, so "never" versus "at some point in the future with no chance of it happening within 5 years" are basically the same concept. Not sure if you remember drawings 5 years ago, or most anything else...
I'll agree that this specific comment was short sighted.I don't think our core competency has ever been exclusively great customer support or fostering a forum. People don't buy our software at the end of the day because someone is extra cheerful on the phone or we have a good forum - they have a job to do and we provide the tools to do it in a cost effective way. That's never really changed. I'm not sure how to respond to a qualitative statement like "over the last few years Alibre Support has become less personal". That may be true, maybe not. Different people probably have different opinions. We still have people here that spend an hour and a half with customers doing anything to figure out a problem or issue. And related to ingrained seats, no vendor is highly successful at competing against engrained seats at a company. It's a year sales cycle with 10 meetings and lots of triplicate approval forms etc. - it wouldn't be worth it to engage in that for us. If our total sale would be half a million bucks, then it might make sense, but that's not the case. Selling someone CAD software that already has CAD software is a job I do not envy - but we don't really focus on trying to do that like our competition does.
Now back to the topic - related to the API we typically release API documentation a little after a release. Sometimes we don't release new documentation if the additions were very small and more for internal use. I imagine we will be updating it at some point over the next few months, but any existing stuff you have should work and I doubt any mind-blowing API-driven functionality has been added this release. I know we've made some new calls available but they are, if I remember correctly, more for Motion and CAM to utilize.
Max
swertel
Alibre Super User
I want to reiterate that I never had, nor have, any intention of implying that Alibre has degraded in service. I have no proof. All I have is perception. From Alibre's perspective, that should be cause for concern because where one vocal person sees a trend, many other silent people do as well. Is the perception real? What does Alibre have to do to change the perception? Is there enough value in changing the perception to warrant the costs in doing so?
Have you ever thought about contracting with users like cclark440 or Alex Franke to have them write a beginner's guide to Alibre API? They could even consult with your API developers to fill missing gaps in functionality. This could potentially open the door for more and better 3rd party developers. It would also open the door for more weekend coders to do some amazing things with Alibre Design, including better automation between AD and 3DS printers.
P.S. Is Alibre making an appearance at COFES 2012?
Have you ever thought about contracting with users like cclark440 or Alex Franke to have them write a beginner's guide to Alibre API? They could even consult with your API developers to fill missing gaps in functionality. This could potentially open the door for more and better 3rd party developers. It would also open the door for more weekend coders to do some amazing things with Alibre Design, including better automation between AD and 3DS printers.
P.S. Is Alibre making an appearance at COFES 2012?