Who here uses M-Files Vault?
- Thread starter albie0803
- Start date
Don't quote me on all this, it's from memory, but is probably mostly 95% accurate. It's not an official Alibre list of stuff, just me picking my own brain, but it's probably enough detail for now:
The core features of PDM are (probably non-exhaustively) as such:
Server-Client Architecture
You can install the server on your main computer or any other machine. Then you can access it from one or more machines, or multiple people can access it from their machines. This is similar in approach to M-Files at a high level.
UI
Unlike M-Files, you cannot access PDM from Windows Explorer. Access is through the PDM UI, which is currently part of the Alibre Design executable. See more info on that below.
Storage Approach
Combination of database and file system. Though a user should never be opening up the data section and mucking with files manually on the server itself - those changes may break PDM. A proper backup must be made from the backup tool.
Backups
Backups must be made via the server tool.
API
No public API will exist to start, but if good uses can be demonstrated (asked for) we can consider adding that.
Core Features
- Comprehensive and robust search. You can search based on any metadata. You could say "show me all PART files modified after 1/1/2021 by BOB with SurfaceFinish = Sandblasted" that are checked out for example.
- Where Used
- Versioning and rollback
- File locking
- Check out / Check In
- View constituents
- Copy/Paste/Rename/Move files
- Insert arbitrary files into the PDM, such as PDFs, excel docs, images, notes, whatever that go with your project
File Organization
CAD files are broken out roughly into 2 types: library stuff and non-library stuff. The basic difference is that parts in a Library folder can be referenced and inserted into any design in any Project, where parts that do not live in a Library can only be inserted into designs within the same Project. If you find a part from one project that lives in a project folder needs to be inserted into a design for another project, you can just move it to a Library folder and insert it from there - moving won't break any existing references. This approach helps enforce the concept of keeping reusable parts cleanly separated into a Library area of the PDM where they can be more easily viewed, edited, locked, and managed.
For non-library stuff, several approaches can be taken by the user, but at a high level there will exist the concept of "organizational folder structure" and within those there exist "data folders". So for example, you might consider the YEAR to be the most top level item you care about, then under year you want CUSTOMER, then under customer you want PROJECT NAME. So you could define that and in your primary file tree the top-level folders will follow that format:
LIBRARIES
==========
- Library 1
- Library 2
PROJECTS
==========
YEAR
----CUSTOMER
--------PROJECT NAME
------------My CAD Data
------------Misc files
------------Puppy Pictures
------------Proposals
Or, you might want PROJECT NAME to be the topmost level followed by PROJECT TYPE and then HowMuchILikeTheCustomerFrom1to10. Point is you can customize that. But at the bottom most level of that organization folder structure, you will see "normal" folders that contain all your data for that project, and you can organize that however you like, just like in Windows for example.
Metadata Customization
You'll be able to customize metadata structures and create new metadata structures. Some metadata may always be entered manually, but other times you want to pick from a list of acceptable values. So you might create a property called Surface Finish and in your org you have 5 surface finishes you care about, each with associated costs, fulfillment centers, whatever. You can define all that structured data and on the property card you'll have a picklist of Surface Finish with 5 options.
Things that will be in v1 but may change
- Currently the PDM browser IS Alibre Design. It has its own UI but to access PDM you have to open AD and then click PDM. This makes, for example, giving access to your marketing department awkward. We want to decouple from the main executable, that is our plan at some point, but as of right now there are bigger fish and it's unlikely it will happen in v1.
- Currently access to PDM is planned for Expert licenses only. However, we may allow a paid PDM upgrade for lower versions of the software. We have not yet decided on that but there are reasonable arguments for both sides.
What will not be in v1 (non-exhaustively) and may not be in v2, we'll see, you guys tell us later:
User-level Permissions (other than who can access in general), but obviously and especially if we decouple the UI from the main AD EXE with the idea of giving it to your shipping department or marketing dept., you won't want those folks deleting or editing CAD data.
Workflows or workflow rules of any type
The core features of PDM are (probably non-exhaustively) as such:
Server-Client Architecture
You can install the server on your main computer or any other machine. Then you can access it from one or more machines, or multiple people can access it from their machines. This is similar in approach to M-Files at a high level.
UI
Unlike M-Files, you cannot access PDM from Windows Explorer. Access is through the PDM UI, which is currently part of the Alibre Design executable. See more info on that below.
Storage Approach
Combination of database and file system. Though a user should never be opening up the data section and mucking with files manually on the server itself - those changes may break PDM. A proper backup must be made from the backup tool.
Backups
Backups must be made via the server tool.
API
No public API will exist to start, but if good uses can be demonstrated (asked for) we can consider adding that.
Core Features
- Comprehensive and robust search. You can search based on any metadata. You could say "show me all PART files modified after 1/1/2021 by BOB with SurfaceFinish = Sandblasted" that are checked out for example.
- Where Used
- Versioning and rollback
- File locking
- Check out / Check In
- View constituents
- Copy/Paste/Rename/Move files
- Insert arbitrary files into the PDM, such as PDFs, excel docs, images, notes, whatever that go with your project
File Organization
CAD files are broken out roughly into 2 types: library stuff and non-library stuff. The basic difference is that parts in a Library folder can be referenced and inserted into any design in any Project, where parts that do not live in a Library can only be inserted into designs within the same Project. If you find a part from one project that lives in a project folder needs to be inserted into a design for another project, you can just move it to a Library folder and insert it from there - moving won't break any existing references. This approach helps enforce the concept of keeping reusable parts cleanly separated into a Library area of the PDM where they can be more easily viewed, edited, locked, and managed.
For non-library stuff, several approaches can be taken by the user, but at a high level there will exist the concept of "organizational folder structure" and within those there exist "data folders". So for example, you might consider the YEAR to be the most top level item you care about, then under year you want CUSTOMER, then under customer you want PROJECT NAME. So you could define that and in your primary file tree the top-level folders will follow that format:
LIBRARIES
==========
- Library 1
- Library 2
PROJECTS
==========
YEAR
----CUSTOMER
--------PROJECT NAME
------------My CAD Data
------------Misc files
------------Puppy Pictures
------------Proposals
Or, you might want PROJECT NAME to be the topmost level followed by PROJECT TYPE and then HowMuchILikeTheCustomerFrom1to10. Point is you can customize that. But at the bottom most level of that organization folder structure, you will see "normal" folders that contain all your data for that project, and you can organize that however you like, just like in Windows for example.
Metadata Customization
You'll be able to customize metadata structures and create new metadata structures. Some metadata may always be entered manually, but other times you want to pick from a list of acceptable values. So you might create a property called Surface Finish and in your org you have 5 surface finishes you care about, each with associated costs, fulfillment centers, whatever. You can define all that structured data and on the property card you'll have a picklist of Surface Finish with 5 options.
Things that will be in v1 but may change
- Currently the PDM browser IS Alibre Design. It has its own UI but to access PDM you have to open AD and then click PDM. This makes, for example, giving access to your marketing department awkward. We want to decouple from the main executable, that is our plan at some point, but as of right now there are bigger fish and it's unlikely it will happen in v1.
- Currently access to PDM is planned for Expert licenses only. However, we may allow a paid PDM upgrade for lower versions of the software. We have not yet decided on that but there are reasonable arguments for both sides.
What will not be in v1 (non-exhaustively) and may not be in v2, we'll see, you guys tell us later:
User-level Permissions (other than who can access in general), but obviously and especially if we decouple the UI from the main AD EXE with the idea of giving it to your shipping department or marketing dept., you won't want those folks deleting or editing CAD data.
Workflows or workflow rules of any type
Last edited:
NateLiquidGravity
Alibre Super User
To use it in my Frame Builder add-on; I'd like to request a minimum of api access:
To query through the library directory tree structure (filepath).
To query a list of filenames in a specific directory.
To get a filepath/filename with the user picking one from the library in an open file style dialog.
To get a filepath/filename with the user picking one from the library in an save file style dialog.
To open files from the library given a filepath/filename.
To save files to the library given a filepath/filename - including creating a filepath that doesn't exist yet.
The metadata stuff isn't really important for me to access right now for Frame Builder and I'm only interested in the Alibre Design format files.
As a side note in anticipation of myself migrating over I've worked out how to get the Traditional Folder information from the M-files API. I could use that and the above to create a basic migration tool.
To query through the library directory tree structure (filepath).
To query a list of filenames in a specific directory.
To get a filepath/filename with the user picking one from the library in an open file style dialog.
To get a filepath/filename with the user picking one from the library in an save file style dialog.
To open files from the library given a filepath/filename.
To save files to the library given a filepath/filename - including creating a filepath that doesn't exist yet.
The metadata stuff isn't really important for me to access right now for Frame Builder and I'm only interested in the Alibre Design format files.
As a side note in anticipation of myself migrating over I've worked out how to get the Traditional Folder information from the M-files API. I could use that and the above to create a basic migration tool.
We will probably add it but not for v1. We are still in the make it work phase, so that's the focus now. After we have wrangled v1, we will consider things like API etc.
markporter
Member
Will we be able to install the server on a NAS; e.g. Synology or similar?
The PDM server is a Windows program - though the data location can potentially be separate from the machine that the server itself is running on.
simonb65
Alibre Super User
Most 'businesses' use a Linux based server, whether that is a PC type server or NAS box. It's been 15 years since my company used a Windows (Win 2000) based server. Nothing on our network that is 'shared' and continuously powered is Windows based, only client work stations are Windows. That makes PDM for me currently unworkable without a dedicated Windows hardware box and the additional overheads that that would entail!
Great for single users though running the server on their local 'single' machine! but very awkward if you have a desktop and laptop and use the laptop with VPN access back to the office ... where you would have to leave the desktop running just for the PDM server!
Following recent discussions on Linux vs Windows, the PDM is very much a candidate for needing to be hosted on a Linux or NAS based hardware for businesses.
For some businesses, that 'shared and core' server may be a hosted by an ISP (99% Linux)!
M00m137
Member
This is really interesting. I've only just heard about this Alibre PDM, but we are M-Files users and we'll be watching this with great interest, Our design release process means we don't need to give access to other departments (who are all using Windows folders for document control ) so an Alibre-based UI is fine for us. I don't see anything which would stop us migrating... yet...
The main thing I would miss about M-Files is the workflows - they are really nicely implemented and user-friendly to set up. I had a longer-term plan to link them up to our SharePoint implementation, where we keep our ECO system, and then we could synchronise all our drawings to the ECOs which release them, and have their release status move in lockstep - the goal being to have a live system which would always be up-to-date with the latest released design. But never mind - that was always a pipedream.
Also the scripting ability - we have a vbscript which automatically doles out drawing numbers using a database. Losing that will be to wave several weeks of my life goodbye.. but dropping MFiles would save us a chunk of money and simplify things hugely, as well as relieving the background worry of the unsupported M-Files/Alibre connector.
Very interested on how this develops!
The main thing I would miss about M-Files is the workflows - they are really nicely implemented and user-friendly to set up. I had a longer-term plan to link them up to our SharePoint implementation, where we keep our ECO system, and then we could synchronise all our drawings to the ECOs which release them, and have their release status move in lockstep - the goal being to have a live system which would always be up-to-date with the latest released design. But never mind - that was always a pipedream.
Also the scripting ability - we have a vbscript which automatically doles out drawing numbers using a database. Losing that will be to wave several weeks of my life goodbye.. but dropping MFiles would save us a chunk of money and simplify things hugely, as well as relieving the background worry of the unsupported M-Files/Alibre connector.
Very interested on how this develops!
H-L-Smith
Senior Member
The PDM module is enough to motivate me to get back on yearly maintenance. I am pleased with the improvements Alibre has made since being back on its own. However, I'm now retired and not using Alibre to make money. I'm just using it for my personal projects, so the yearly fee became a significant outlay for me.
The PDM will be a very high value addition for me even so and that's why I'm back in the fold. I wouldn't expect it in version 1.0, but it would be nice in the future to have a utility program allowing users to put their old, non-PDM work into the new PDM system some how.
Cheers,
The PDM will be a very high value addition for me even so and that's why I'm back in the fold. I wouldn't expect it in version 1.0, but it would be nice in the future to have a utility program allowing users to put their old, non-PDM work into the new PDM system some how.
Cheers,
Uncrushed6819
Member
I can't wait for this honestly. I've tested a handful of tools and ended up on SVN for now to handle my revisions and make sure my work is backed up. Having a native tool will be great.
Is it able to show differences or list them between versions of a file? Or am I not understanding what PDM is for?
Is it able to show differences or list them between versions of a file? Or am I not understanding what PDM is for?