Feedback requested - Ribbon / Toolbar / Menu and UI consolidation

[Max]

Our goals for this:

• Simplify the UI, make common tools bigger in the UI, make the UI more discoverable

Our takeaways so far:

• Don't touch mah' separate boss/cut buttons (without providing a one-click solution to replace it)!
• Consolidate thin features - no disagreement appears to exist here
• We'll not try to "autodetect" whether you're doing a boss or cut since it's very unreliable and will be annoying.

Our new proposal:

• No Boss/Cut options in the feature dialogs. We'll consider that for later. Keep the separate boss / cut sections.
• Through some tweaking in other places, I have found the space to keep boss/cut sections. We still may consolidate these in the future, but now is not the right time.
  • We'll rename the Render tab to "Send to" and options will include "Keyshot", "2D Drawing", "Convert to Sheetmetal". This is where future tools like "Send to assembly", "Face/Sketch to DXF", "Export STL" etc. would live.
  • We'll move the 2 surface tools out of the modeling toolbar and only have them in surface tab.
  • We'll move Catalog Feature stuff into the Library tab.
• In 23 the Direct Edit tools are going away as they are no longer needed. Realtime Previews makes the regular "Offset Face" etc. tools enough - so the direct edit weird UI is going away and instead of 8 tools there are 4. This saves space and they'll be consolidated into a single dropdown.
• Almost all buttons are now full size (!) and easier to find and click
• Categories now fully make sense. All modeling tools are together.

It looks like this (top existing, bottom proposal):



Does this tick all the boxes and is it easier on the eyes and more efficient?

 

[MilesH]

As long as there are no changes in the functions of the traditional toolbar icons, I'm happy. So, preselections in a common dialog, by separate icons, is fine.

 

[simonb65]

 

[MilesH]

Does this tick all the boxes and is it easier on the eyes and more efficient?

The proposed ribbon looks a huge improvement visually...

 

[jc-s]

I like it

 

[Jake_Steidy]

I think it looks great!
My only question is looking at the Boolean Subtract icon, will that solely be the Boolean subtract or will all Boolean operations be housed under that Boolean Subtract icon? Or will that just become a Boolean icon, without subtract in the label?

 

[Max]

I think it looks great!
My only question is looking at the Boolean Subtract icon, will that solely be the Boolean subtract or will all Boolean operations be housed under that Boolean Subtract icon? Or will that just become a Boolean icon, without subtract in the label?

That houses the other tools - they will all still be accessible, similar to the current way you might access the Thin Wall Extrude from the regular extrude boss section of the ribbon.

 

[HaroldL]

In 23 the Direct Edit tools are going away as they are no longer needed. Realtime Previews makes the regular "Offset Face" etc. tools enough - so the direct edit weird UI is going away and instead of 8 tools there are 4. This saves space and they'll be consolidated into a single dropdown.

I don't use the Direct Editing tools much except for Move Face to change the length of imported fasteners but could you explain this a little more. Which 4 tools will be included and how does Realtime Previews make the regular "Offset Face" etc. tools enough? Maybe it's that I don't use them much, if at all, that I'm not seeing it.

 

[Max]

I don't use the Direct Editing tools much except for Move Face to change the length of imported fasteners but could you explain this a little more. Which 4 tools will be included and how does Realtime Previews make the regular "Offset Face" etc. tools enough? Maybe it's that I don't use them much, if at all, that I'm not seeing it.

Sorry, I often confuse "Direct Editing" with "Push Pull" as they are use synonymously internally. I meant we are removing the 4 Push Pull tools: Push/Pull: Face, Radius, and Pocket and the Remove tool.

In the Direct Editing group on the ribbon, 4 tools remain: Move Face / Offset Face / Remove Face, and Remove Lump.

The "Push Pull" tools were basically the Move Face / Offset Face / Remove Face but with a different UI, different names (Push Pull Face, Push Pull Radius, Push Pull Pocket), a few inferencing capabilities, and realtime previews. You would create a push pull operation using a Push Pull tool, but editing it took you to the Move / Offset / Remove Face dialog. So the Push Pull tools were an "easier to use" (debatable) front end to the traditional tools with a few extra niceties and only during initial feature creation.

Since all tools now have realtime previews, we have ported the things unique to Push Pull (such as inferencing) into the traditional tools (Move / Offset / Remove Face) because:

• The push/pull interface is wonky and unique in the product
• It is bizarre to create using one interface and tool but edit the same feature using a different interface and tool
• A major advantage of push/pull was realtime feedback, which is now everywhere and so now redundant as an advantage

You will still be able to do everything you could do with push/pull using the other tools, which have been reworked with some new options to allow that.

 

[jfleming]

Late to party....

I see you're keeping extrude and cut as seperate, I don' like that, but is what it is. I have never liked it being split the way it is. I just trained a guy at work and it was confusing to him.... "well I hit extrude and it wants to cut.... well that's because you hit extrude cut, not extrude boss" Then you have to delete your feature and go through the steps to create the feature all over again. I have been using this software for 7 years now and it still catches me sometimes as well.

 

[Max]

Late to party....

I see you're keeping extrude and cut as seperate, I don' like that, but is what it is. I have never liked it being split the way it is. I just trained a guy at work and it was confusing to him.... "well I hit extrude and it wants to cut.... well that's because you hit extrude cut, not extrude boss" Then you have to delete your feature and go through the steps to create the feature all over again. I have been using this software for 7 years now and it still catches me sometimes as well.

The takeaway here is that this change requires more thoughtfulness than we have time for in v23 or we will tick off half the people. Doesn't mean it's off the table, just that we need to do it in a way we don't have time for right now.

2021 is the year we will redesign the UI product wide. Make everything consistent and unified and customizable. That's a huge project culminating at end of year and this change would be in that release if we do it. V23 is probably just ribbon changes.

 

[oldfox]

First I just want to say that I never use the ribbon. I use toolbars with some customizing: i.e. breaking 2 option flyouts into separate icons.
This takes 1 click to select the tool I want to use. Not 2. Also I am assuming that this will be just a ribbon thing and not impact on the toolbars. Not very UI programming knowledgeable.

I've never had a problem with the need for more real estate using toolbars.

The one thing I would suggest is to change the options from Add & Remove to Boss & Cut. That's what they are called now - no need to change the names and add to any confusion some might experience with the new dialogs.

Max, take this to heart. Don't change names of old friends just for the sake of making something old look new. Please.

(e.g.) The hub of a gear is a BOSS of course. The bore of a gear is a Cut of course. I've never heard nor seen BOSS called an ADD,
nor CUT called REMOVE. Push/Pull I can live with. Kinda like poking your finger into a ball of sticky bread dough. Either you
PUSH to make a CUT/HOLE or you PULL to make a BOSS/STRING. To me, that's logical.

As long as there are no changes in the functions of the traditional toolbar icons, I'm happy. So, preselections in a common dialog, by separate icons, is fine.

+100

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

The Boss and Cut dialogs would be the exact same but with either Boss or Cut preselected. Perhaps we can make a way to invoke the dialog with one or the other selected.

I think this is a Win-Win. I would have the same number of clicks and those inclined could switch back and forth from Boss to Cut.

 

[Max]

Max, take this to heart. Don't change names of old friends just for the sake of making something old look new. Please.

(e.g.) The hub of a gear is a BOSS of course. The bore of a gear is a Cut of course. I've never heard nor seen BOSS called an ADD,
nor CUT called REMOVE

Not to worry, it was a quick mockup intended to show functionality not final strings or ui or buttons or icons. It will remain with that terminology, at least for a while and potentially forever. But for what it's worth various terminology is used in many other packages. Some say boss, some say add, some say unite (boolean terms). They all do the same thing. Some are easier to learn than others.

 

[tk1247]

Sorry, I often confuse "Direct Editing" with "Push Pull" as they are use synonymously internally. I meant we are removing the 4 Push Pull tools: Push/Pull: Face, Radius, and Pocket and the Remove tool.

In the Direct Editing group on the ribbon, 4 tools remain: Move Face / Offset Face / Remove Face, and Remove Lump.

The "Push Pull" tools were basically the Move Face / Offset Face / Remove Face but with a different UI, different names (Push Pull Face, Push Pull Radius, Push Pull Pocket), a few inferencing capabilities, and realtime previews. You would create a push pull operation using a Push Pull tool, but editing it took you to the Move / Offset / Remove Face dialog. So the Push Pull tools were an "easier to use" (debatable) front end to the traditional tools with a few extra niceties and only during initial feature creation.

Since all tools now have realtime previews, we have ported the things unique to Push Pull (such as inferencing) into the traditional tools (Move / Offset / Remove Face) because:

• The push/pull interface is wonky and unique in the product
• It is bizarre to create using one interface and tool but edit the same feature using a different interface and tool
• A major advantage of push/pull was realtime feedback, which is now everywhere and so now redundant as an advantage

You will still be able to do everything you could do with push/pull using the other tools, which have been reworked with some new options to allow that.

Unless I'm reading this incorrectly, I'm not crazy about losing features or over-combining them to save space. Never thought the UI was crowded, and if I couldn't find something right away I went to the toolbar anyway. Key point for me is to be able to find a function quickly and with few clicks, whether it's a commonly used one or once in a while. Doubt you can come up with a UI that universally satisfies.

 

[simonb65]

If you want to save space on the ribbon, how about moving some to other tabs. The ribbon was designed to be a process flow driven control, working the tabs from left to right, see microsoft applications that implement it. It just appears that lumping everything under 'model' is a bit too much of a broard brush stroke! Fully customisable will allow users to create the best layout (and declutter) that suits their specific needs.

 

[bigseb]

That proposed ribbon is awful. I like it the way it is.

And seriously, can I not have some feature upgrades instead of a trivial visual redesign. Please.

 

[TimoCAD]

Unfortunately we can't replace the OK with Boss and Cut buttons as it conflicts with realtime previews.

The text can be Boss and Cut instead of Add and Remove.

The Boss and Cut dialogs would be the exact same but with either Boss or Cut preselected. Perhaps we can make a way to invoke the dialog with one or the other selected. The ribbon in v23 will be customizable (!) so maybe there are 3 tools. Maybe the default ribbon has "extrude" , but if you want you can add a boss and cut version of the icon instead of a generic version via customization.

Isnt it just a picture in the Buttons Code?!

 

[simonb65]

can I not have some feature upgrades instead of a trivial visual redesign

+1 ... plus bug fixes of long standing issues! I agree that the UI needs 'improving' in terms of consistency, but bug fixes, stability and performance are way ahead of UI look and feel at this point. We still have many bugs introduced by HOOPS, 2D drawing association breaking and corrupt user profile issues that are still not fixed yet.

 

[bigseb]

+1 ... plus bug fixes of long standing issues! I agree that the UI needs 'improving' in terms of consistency, but bug fixes, stability and performance are way ahead of UI look and feel at this point. We still have many bugs introduced by HOOPS, 2D drawing association breaking and corrupt user profile issues that are still not fixed yet.

Not the thread for this but hey, here goes:

• Loft tool improvements
• tangent/tangent spline (think Moi blend tool)
• Fix 'extrude to geometry' when 'to surface' is curved
• import file repair tools
• resizable selection windows
• improved surface tools (create and patch)
• make new extension for AD surface files to allow surface to stay associative

That's just off the top of my head.

Playing around with Moi V4 a bit lately. As far as modelling tools go it blows AD out the water. AD could consider partnering with Michael Gibson and including Moi's modelling tools is AD's surface tab.