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New to Alibre, Some Qs

kcoffield

Member
Hi all, first post here. Recently purchased Alibre Pro v25. I have some previous experience with mostly 2D work, but new to Alibre as will become quite obvious shortly.

I’ve taken in all the sketching and most of the modeling tutorials. I have some questions. Attached is a sketch of an intake manifold flange. The rounded rectangular features are the port windows and wall thickness for the transitions to the runners. The points are the locations of the mounting bosses. There will eventually be a right and left flange as they are not completely symmetric.

I built the geometry by using a centered square with fillets applied to the corners. I constructed one of the port windows with the flanges scallops about the origin then copied it to the other three positions. I tried to move the figures and could not. After a couple hours of experimentation, I gathered the figures about the origin seemed to be constrained about the origin although I saw no such constraint. I searched the forum and found a thread that said it was possibly an implied constraint.

Q1: How do I see an implied constraint? Or do I just never build something around the origin that I intend to move? I solved it by working from the copies and deleting the original built about the origin.

The design exporer only displays points I've created (and sketches?) but doesnt contain sketch construction history features like rectangles, copying them, etc.

Q2: I take sketch details other than points are not cpatured in the design explorer? Correct?

Somehow, apparently when I saved the file, I lost all the sketch construction geometry and it became just a joined sketch, whereas before, I could see the nodes where all the lines, fillets, and tangencies occurred.

Q3: I did not intentionally do this. Why did that happen? Upon saving the skecth? Is there a command I can use to explode the sketch back into its constituent construction parts? I’d like to be able to edit it and measure to and from it. In my previous CAD work there were join and explode commands for such things. Is there in Alibre?

Another odd thing was after I constructed the rounded rectangles, and used analyze, it reported that there were overlaps, intersections and open loops. I understood the scallops being open looped, but not on the rounded windows since they were built with the rectangle and fillet commands. If there were such things on those features, it seemingly came from the fillet command being applied to the rectangle? No healing fix available but the joined sketch tests fine. ?

It’s no big loss to start over at this point since it’s not much work to replicate, and I’d probably layout nodes to center the port windows (and edit I’d like to do). I just figured I may as well practice on something I actually want to build. This sketch will eventually get extruded for flange and runner interface, and get mounting bosses added. The runners lofted and shelled down a spline to the carb interface, but I need more time in the sketching saddle.

All help appreciated.

Best,
Kelly
 

Attachments

  • 4V Port Window.AD_PRT
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Ken226

Alibre Super User
Q1.

There is no way that i know of to see the implied constraints. They can be a pain in the butt, but also are necessary. There is a way to drag/move geometry that has implied constraints. if i remember correctly, hold the control key while attempting to drag the sketch. I usually don't bother with this thought. When i need to move a sketch, i just select it all, right click copy with base point, then delete the original and paste a copy wherever i want it.

Q2. Correct, but you didn't lose the sketch geometry. It just isn't visible once you leave the active sketch because you have your sketch visibility turned off. Go to the "view" tab, and turn on sketch visibility.

Untitled.jpg


Q3: You didn't lose anything. When you exit the active sketch, the nodes, constraints, etc are no longer visible. If you right click the sketch in the design explorer, and select "edit", the sketch will be active again and you can see all of those nodes, line segments, arcs and constraints. (provided you have their visibility set to active, in the view tab).


Disclaimer: My answers are based on the assumptions that I understood what you where asking, which isn't always the case. Feel free to ask for clarification if my answers don't appear to make any sense.
 

DavidJ

Administrator
Staff member
First - don't put so much into a single sketch. Use more features/sketches to spread the detail. Sketch patterns are all very well, but Feature patterns tend to be more robust and versatile.

Q1. Co-incident constraints (implied or otherwise) don't show a symbol because they are so common - to drag figure away from co-incident, hold Ctrl whilst dragging.

Q2. Correct sketches and features show in Design Explorer - you can go back and Edit a sketch which will display reference lines etc.

Q3. - not sure I really follow. I'd go back to thing like use 3D fillets after extruding, instead of 2D fillets in sketches (because it's all so much more editable).

If you've come from a 2D background, you'll have to get used to putting much less detail into each sketch.

You have lots of overlaps (duplicated lines) in your Sketch 1 - get rid of those first if you want to make any sense of anything else. Sketches generally need to be 'closed' - review this video 9it's a bit dated, but the concepts remain true.
 

Ken226

Alibre Super User
Another thing that you may find helpful.

Alibre doesn't like multiple loops within a sketch. It will make life easier to take small steps with your sketches.

For example:

First, ill delete everything except your runner sketch profiles:

1662402821268.png



Use the sketch analysis tool. your sketch has tons of overlapping lines. multiple lines laid on top of each other. They show up as open loops and must be corrected/deleted.

1662403043215.png
 
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Ken226

Alibre Super User
First - don't put so much into a single sketch. Use more features/sketches to spread the detail. Sketch patterns are all very well, but Feature patterns tend to be more robust and versatile.

Q1. Co-incident constraints (implied or otherwise) don't show a symbol because they are so common - to drag figure away from co-incident, hold Ctrl whilst dragging.

Q2. Correct sketches and features show in Design Explorer - you can go back and Edit a sketch which will display reference lines etc.

Q3. - not sure I really follow. I'd go back to thing like use 3D fillets after extruding, instead of 2D fillets in sketches (because it's all so much more editable).

If you've come from a 2D background, you'll have to get used to putting much less detail into each sketch.

You have lots of overlaps (duplicated lines) in your Sketch 1 - get rid of those first if you want to make any sense of anything else. Sketches generally need to be 'closed' - review this video 9it's a bit dated, but the concepts remain true.


I think me and you were typing out some of the same answers at the same time. :)



So, Kcoffield,

After cleaning the sketch, i extruded the runners.

1662403269464.png

Then went back and pasted the sketch geometry that i had previously deleted into another sketch, to create your flange.

1662403576112.png


So, rather than try it with one complex sketch. I followed DavidJ's excellent advice. I created the first feature (the runners) from one simple sketch.

Then went back and created the flange, from a second simple sketch.
 
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kcoffield

Member
Thanks for the advice, Gents.

I will use more sketches with simpler/reduced content going forward. I still getting acquainted with the various commands and locations for various commands, and interpreting info in various views. I am also working in relatively small view space which isn't helpful, but am soon to remedy that.

I eliminated all the overlaps. I must have inadvertently copied instead of moving features and I couldn't see the identical features created on top of one another, other than as I mentioned through analyze and being puzzled. In my other CAD program, I can just select eliminate overlaps and they're all gone in one key stroke. I went through and deleted each feature until it disappeared and then undid/restored and it's now tidied up.


I didn't try, but could they (the duplicate features) have been deleted from the analyze dialogue box? I'll post a few pics of what I'm up to and my design approach for more feedback to see if I'm on the right track. I use the lost foam method to cast automotive parts, mostly induction systems, and a cnc router to cut the foam patterns. Stay tuned for that. Meanwhile I'll keep working on the flange. It's just one piece of the assembly.

Thanks again for the replies. -Much appreciated.

Best,
Kelly
 

Ken226

Alibre Super User
I didn't try, but could they (the duplicate features) have been deleted from the analyze dialogue box?

Best,
Kelly


It would be nice if the "heal" button on the analyze sketch tool could handle that, but unfortunately it only seems to work at "healing" degenerate figures.

If there is a way do do that, I havn't figured it out yet.
 

HaroldL

Alibre Super User
I’ve taken in all the sketching and most of the modeling tutorials.
Are these the tutorials?


Also, if you're modeling an engine, JOKO Engineering has a pretty good series of YouTube videos on that subject. You may want to check them out too. He used Atom 3D but know that if it is possible in Atom 3D it certainly should be doable in Alibre Design.

kcoffield said:
I am also working in relatively small view space which isn't helpful, but am soon to remedy that.

How big is your monitor or are you on a laptop?
 
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kcoffield

Member
Also, if you're modeling an engine, JOKO Engineering has a pretty good series of YouTube videos on that subject. You may want to check them out too. He used Atom 3D but know that if it is possible in Atom 3D it certainly should be doable in Alibre Design.

Yes those were the tutorials but I saw JOKO before I bought Alibre and have subscribed. Just havent invested the time yet.

How big is your monitor or are you on a laptop?

It's actually a MS Surface tablet (I know), but I have a dock/port replicator and larger monitor ordered.

I’ve got a ways to go down the learning curve but here’s where we’re going. I’ve made many, many lost foam castings. Here’s a foam pattern and resulting casting for an intake manifold very similar to my first modeling project. It has a large number of assembled pieces. Everything is 2.5D or cut from hand guided pattern routing.

My goal for modeling is to vastly reduce the piece part count in the pattern, improve runner geometry, and vastly reduce the time required to fabricate pattern. I plan to divide the pattern into these 5 pieces (actually 8 more carb flanges), and assemble them similar to the intake pictures.

If you look closely on the pattern you can see the mounting bosses on the flanges are all separate hand placed pieces that have been filleted with wax. I plan the flanges to be all foam and 3D machined as one piece.

For the runners, I’m thinking of lofting the port windows to the circular carb openings via a spline that allows the runners to nest adjacently, shelling the runner walls, then slicing/parting them into upper/lower halves that can be 3D CNC machined. The foam cuts like air with vey high cutting speeds.

I’ve got a lot to learn to get there. It was quite a bite when I started from scratch on CAM and GCode, but I got there.

I have a YT channel too. It's all about my lost foam casting. I'm also an admin at a home casting forum. I do it to support my motorsports habbit.


Best,
Kelly
 

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  • 64.1 Clean Casting.JPG
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Ken226

Alibre Super User
Would someone try and open this part file?

I created it a couple months ago, and have never had any trouble with it until today. I was going to upload it earlier, so that Kcoffield could dissect the sketches and features since it is very similar to what he is trying to do with some of his models.

But, it won't open on my computer anymore.

last time I worked on it was in V25 beta if i remember correctly. Now when i try to open Alibre locks up and have to use the task manager to shut it down. I can still open the engine assembly file that contains this part but when I click "edit in separate window" or "edit here", it also locks up Alibre.

Once someone verifies that the file is messed up and it isn't just my PC, ill submit a support ticket.
 

Attachments

  • Exhaust Headers.AD_PRT
    7 MB · Views: 5

HaroldL

Alibre Super User
It opened okay for me. I did a Regen on it and saved it. See if that helps on your end.
 

Attachments

  • Exhaust Headers.AD_PRT
    6.8 MB · Views: 2

Ken226

Alibre Super User
Thats odd.

The regen'ed file you upload is also locking up Alibre.

The task manager shows about 20 % cpu usage and 1.5gb of memory being consumed, but it just stays "not responding".

I have no idea why.

1662414988569.png
 

HaroldL

Alibre Super User
I was told once that "Not responding" means that it's too busy to respond to your input. Kind of like "don't bother me now I'm working".

If it is at 20% at least it is working. I'd let it work on the file for a while. I've had some files that sat for a few seconds before any indication that it was doing anything. Watch the status/feedback at the bottom left of the window for any indication it is working.
 

Ken226

Alibre Super User
I was told once that "Not responding" means that it's too busy to respond to your input. Kind of like "don't bother me now I'm working".

If it is at 20% at least it is working. I'd let it work on the file for a while. I've had some files that sat for a few seconds before any indication that it was doing anything. Watch the status/feedback at the bottom left of the window for any indication it is working.


It's still trying, after 15 minutes. :( The little engine that couldn't.

I'm going to try an uninstall/reinstall of Alibre.
 

idslk

Alibre Super User
Sorry that this would not really help... but also no problems here...

Regards
Stefan
 

HaroldL

Alibre Super User
I rolled the dogbone back to the first feature and saved it. See if this helps it open. If it does then just F5 it and hopefully that will take care of it for you.
 

Attachments

  • Exhaust Headers.AD_PRT
    1.6 MB · Views: 1

Ken226

Alibre Super User
Sorry that this would not really help... but also no problems here...

Regards
Stefan

No problem, I appreciate the effort.


I uninstalled Alibre, searched through the C: and deleted all alibre related folders and then reinstalled the software.

That part opens now. No problem. Actually, the whole program seems more responsive now.

That part opens in less than a second now. Kinda odd, but resolved nonetheless.

Thanks Stefan, Harold and Kelly.
 

Ken226

Alibre Super User
While downloading the Alibre installation, i saw that there is a new version of Keyshot available. I was still on keyshot 10.

This kinda worked out in the best for me! :)


untitled.1.jpg
 
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