Feedback requested - Ribbon / Toolbar / Menu and UI consolidation

[Max]

Please see a revised proposal for the ribbon based on your feedback and ignore the one in this post.

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Hello, we are considering consolidating some tools. We have 4 Extrude tools, 4 revolve tools, 4 sweep tools, 2 helical tools, and 2 loft tools - the thinking is that's a bit unnecessary. Consolidating the functionality of those 4/4/4/2/2 tools into a single dialog a piece is a way to get more room on the ribbon to play with while also increasing usability and discoverability of several tools and their options.

What we're considering for the ribbon/menu/toolbars

• Consolidate the extrude/revolve/loft/sweep/helical tools into 1 dialog per tool
• Make a more logical layout, as shown
• Make some common tools (like Mirror Feature, Insert Plane etc) use big icons from the space savings

This is the before / after (not final):


What we're considering for dialog consolidation:

• Treat thin walls as options instead of separate tools
• Treat Boss / Cut as options, instead of separate tools
• If we have time, redo some dialogs to look nicer in v23, if not then in v24

That looks like this (not final). Example workflow to make an Extrude Cut:

1. Enter the Extrude Tool
2. Select "Remove"
3. Use the tool as normal.

The most notable impact on your life is that you will have to select the Add / Remove in the dialog. Our feeling is that the benefits of consolidation outweigh the cons of having to do this. What are your thoughts?

 

[Hunter]

I like it, it makes sense. I've always thought that the current way is a bit old. The proposed changes are also similar to other tools. However, I'd like to make one suggestion: if you extrude from an existing body's surface, and you extrude away it should automatically Add, if I extrude into the body, it should automatically Remove. Not sure if that's possible?

 

[simonb65]

Why dont you make Pattern a single dialog too. Linear and circular are just a pattern option.

 

[Max]

Why dont you make Pattern a single dialog too. Linear and circular are just a pattern option.

We will definitely consider that. It may not be in this round 1, but yes it makes perfect sense.

 

[HaroldL]

Glad to see that this is finally being worked on. I recall putting in a suggestion yeeaarrss ago to add the Thin functions as options to the Extrude Boss an Cut tools, so good for you for working on this.

The one thing I would suggest is to change the options from Add & Remove to Boss & Cut. That's what they are called now - no need to change the names and add to any confusion some might experience with the new dialogs.

Another thing, could you do something with the Side 1 & Side 2 to make it easier to tell which is which on the model. As it is you can guess wrong, as I have on several occasions and then have to rework the feature. A better preview would help.

And how about a Reverse button on the Offset options. (Yeah, I know, you can just put in minus sign but I can ask can't I?)

I like the "expand" features for Direction, Draft and Thin Wall as long as they aren't persistent like the Offset is in the new Constraints dialog.



Just one more - you need to add more smilies to the forum, we need a

or a

something to show a little more exuberance.

 

[NateLiquidGravity]

I've talked about this before so I'll just sum up my thoughts.

I'm NOT a fan of combining Add and Remove. At a minimum it's numerous extra clicks every day as I often switch back and forth between the two. Further it seems confusing to a new user since the icon doesn't show both Add and Remove.

I'm a big fan of combining regular and thin wall. Thin wall isn't used as often and combining it as an option actually highlights the ability.

 

[bigseb]

I've talked about this before so I'll just sum up my thoughts.

I'm NOT a fan of combining Add and Remove. At a minimum it's numerous extra clicks every day as I often switch back and forth between the two. Further it seems confusing to a new user since the icon doesn't show both Add and Remove.

I'm a big fan of combining regular and thin wall. Thin wall isn't used as often and combining it as an option actually highlights the ability.

Agree 100% with Nate.

 

[AlexB]

Anything that increases the amount of clicks I have to make to create features is a no from me. It looks like 'remove' is the secondary option (naturally), but there's a quite a lot parts I model that are 90% 'remove' features and only 10% 'add', so it will just result in more repetitive actions for me.

If you can find way to make it so there's the same amount of necessary actions or less, then I'm all for tidying up the UI.

 

[Hunter]

Anything that increases the amount of clicks I have to make to create features is a no from me. It looks like 'remove' is the secondary option (naturally), but there's a quite a lot parts I model that are 90% 'remove' features and only 10% 'add', so it will just result in more repetitive actions for me.

If you can find way to make it so there's the same amount of necessary actions or less, then I'm all for tidying up the UI.

I agree with this.

Can the software not automatically detect whether you're pushing or pulling, resulting in either a Cut (Remove) or Boss (Add)? Whether you're adding or removing material is based purely on the direction, right? Or am I missing something here, is it too risky in that a cut may become a boss, or vice versa?

I'd just like to see the 5 icons for Extrude, Revolve, Sweep, Loft, Helix, and depending on the direction you do the operation, the software must figure out whether you're cutting or bossing, and automatically toggle a direction checkbox. Then there is no need for Add or Remove options, just a check box at direction that automatically responds to the user's mouse action (whether you're pushing into the material, or pulling away). But you can still toggle the direction yourself if you want to. Not sure if this makes sense?

 

[DavidJ]

There are circumstances where it would not be obvious to anyone except the designer whether a cut or boss was intended - direction is not always a good indicator of which is intended.

 

[Hunter]

There are circumstances where it would not be obvious to anyone except the designer whether a cut or boss was intended - direction is not always a good indicator of which is intended.

Ja, good point

 

[AlexB]

Maybe replacing OK at the bottom of the dialog box with two buttons: 'Add' and 'Remove'? or 'OK-Add' and 'OK-Remove'. Less clicks, one dialog for each type of feature.

 

[jc-s]

Agree 100% with Nate.

Me too -- It's not just about number of clicks, but it's faster/easier to just click the "boss" or "cut" to do what you want, rather than having to think about it each time the dialog opens. i.e., muscle-memory does the thinking for you.

 

[simonb65]

Maybe replacing OK at the bottom of the dialog box with two buttons: 'Add' and 'Remove'? or 'OK-Add' and 'OK-Remove'. Less clicks, one dialog for each type of feature.

+1.
That is a way better idea than an ADD/REMOVE at the top. As other have said, should leave them as BOSS and CUT too as you don't want to create a 'new' Alibre only specific terminology that users aren't used to. It should the the same terminology as other CAD applications, as that is what people have learnt/used and is how its referred to in teaching literature. Add/Remove may be good for newbies, but it won't help them longer term! They really need to learn the correct CAD terminology.

 

[TimoCAD]

Ok so far. But can we have Buttons with the corresponding Icons for that?

 

[tk1247]

Me too -- It's not just about number of clicks, but it's faster/easier to just click the "boss" or "cut" to do what you want, rather than having to think about it each time the dialog opens. i.e., muscle-memory does the thinking for you.

Agree - don't change

 

[Jake_Steidy]

I agree with several others about not combining extrude boss or cut. All the other tools I think could be combined because of their decreased frequency of use, but there may be some users that utilize those tools more.

 

[Max]

Unfortunately we can't replace the OK with Boss and Cut buttons as it conflicts with realtime previews.

The text can be Boss and Cut instead of Add and Remove.

The Boss and Cut dialogs would be the exact same but with either Boss or Cut preselected. Perhaps we can make a way to invoke the dialog with one or the other selected. The ribbon in v23 will be customizable (!) so maybe there are 3 tools. Maybe the default ribbon has "extrude" , but if you want you can add a boss and cut version of the icon instead of a generic version via customization.

 

[Jake_Steidy]

I like the idea that the ribbon will be customizable, as long as we would still have the ability to separate the boss tools from the cut tools with individual icons still available to add to our customized ribbon.

 

[simonb65]

The Boss and Cut dialogs would be the exact same but with either Boss or Cut preselected. Perhaps we can make a way to invoke the dialog with one or the other selected. The ribbon in v23 will be customizable (!) so maybe there are 3 tools. Maybe the default ribbon has "extrude" , but if you want you can add a boss and cut version of the icon instead of a generic version via customization.

+1. Sounds like the best plan so far! For most power users, they will probably ditch some options anyway in favour of making room for the separate buttons. Most of my work doesn't use 'shell' (never use) or sweep (extremely rarely) for example, so I'd customise and add separate 'boss' and 'cut' extrude (as that's 90% of my operations) and leave the rest as single buttons with the option in the dialog. I can cope with the odd extra mouse click but as @jc-s says, you wouldn't want to have to do that every time for you power features!