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Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Sketch Planes

----------

From: Dave[SMTP:FLYWITHME6@COMCAST.NET]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:31:00 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Alibre Design] Sketch Planes
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Ahh, I see. It’s still actually on the same plane as it was created, wherever in space that may be. In other systems, a change like that might completely break the model. Alibre chose not to do that; it leaves the feature there, just with a failed status.



Depending on the change you made, it may not even be possible to associate to the face anymore, as the face may not even exist.



Regardless, just cut-paste the sketch to a new sketch plane like I said earlier, and you won’t have the error anymore.



_____

From: Brett Long [mailto:brettlong@steelprocessorsinc.com]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 10:56 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alibre Design] Sketch Planes



The plane is actually a face on a part. I got the error by changing
the part. When the part updated, my sketch didn't associate itself
to the face, its just hanging out in space....... go figure

--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "Dave" <flywithme6@c...> wrote:
> How did you get that error? You normally can't delete a plane if
there is a
> sketch on it. But to answer your question, the only way I can
think of
> would be to cut the sketch figures to the clipboard, start a new
sketch on
> the plane you want, and then paste the sketch figures into the new
sketch
> plane. You can use the autodimension to dimension the sketch
figures, and
> then drag it into position, or just one or two dimensions will
locate the
> fully-dimensioned sketch figures wherever you want in that new
sketch.
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Brett Long [mailto:brettlong@s...]
> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 9:24 AM
> To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Alibre Design] Sketch Planes
>
>
>
> Is there a way "reassociate" a sketch to a plane when the
> error "plane no longer available" appears.
>
> Brett
>
>
>
>
> _____
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/alibre/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> <mailto:alibre-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>
> * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
Service
> < http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .






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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: RE: [Alibre Design] Newby Questions (long friggin' repl

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From: benny_brogan[SMTP:DRAWING@BREDBAND.NET]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 1:22:09 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Sv: RE: [Alibre Design] Newby Questions (long friggin' reply)
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Thank you Björn Eskilsson,

This method that draw a hex was very nice and intelligent.

Thanks again
Benny Brogan

--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "benny_brogan" <drawing@b...> wrote:
> Hallo,
>
> Björn Eskilsson can you draw a polygon with yuor metod and put up
> a Alibre file here befor you trim it, it´s the easiest way to
> understand it all.
>
> Benny Brogan
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "Björn Eskilsson " <eson@e...>
wrote:
> >
> > Draw polygons in Alibre. I do on the following way.
> >
> > Place sketch node their center of the polygon will be.
> > Draw one vertical or horizontal line on the side or over the
node
> (the
> > length is not important). Maseru the distance from the node to
the
> line
> > (this is the only measure you needed to do)
> > Use the top bars pull down the sketch menu and choose repeat,
> choose
> > circular.
> > In the new window put your line in the object you sketch nodes
as
> a center.
> > Six copies and 60 degrade press OK and you have yours hex. Only
> trim the
> > corner and the hex bins were exactly you like having it.
> >
> > E-son
> >
> > -------Ursprungligt meddelande-------
> >
> > Från: alibre@yahoogroups.com
> > Datum: 04/04/04 04:08:09
> > Till: alibre@yahoogroups.com
> > Ämne: RE: [Alibre Design] Newby Questions (long friggin' reply)
> >
> > I'll reply to these in the same order you asked them. And the
> replies are
> > merely based on my personal methods, others will do things quite
> differently
> >
> >
> > No polygons. While it's true that a polygon tool will be nice
> once they put
> > it in, there are quick ways to create most of them. As for the
> hex you
> > mentioned, you can just sketch 6 lines in an approximate hex
shape,
> > constrain them to all be equal size, add two adjacent 120 degree
> dimensions,
> > and you're done. No circles are required. Once it's
constrained,
> you can
> > then add one more dimension, either across the flats or across
the
> points to
> > resize it. I can create a fully constrained hex in about 10
> seconds, you
> > will be able to as well with a little practice. Same goes for
> triangles,
> > pentagons, octagons, etc. You just need to know a few of the
> angles to
> > dimension and you're set.
> >
> > No solids. There are only a few modelers that use solids,
> or "primitives"
> > as they're usually called. Not even very many of the very high
> end modelers
> > use primitives anymore. A few have them, but again, you can
> sketch and
> > create a normal extrusion nearly as fast with practice, and have
> it exactly
> > the correct size to boot.
> >
> > No Boolean operations. Yes, there are Boolean operations. They
> are
> > available in assembly mode, for making molds, etc. As for in 2D
> mode,
> > that's done with the trim tool.
> >
> > No macro tool. You're correct, that is missing. There are,
> however, other
> > features that can be used similarly, like feature libraries. If
> there's a
> > particular feature that is complex to setup and is used a lot,
you
> can add
> > it to the feature library, and reuse it at anytime.
> >
> > Shortcuts and toolbar mods – There is a custom keyboard you can
> purchase
> > that has lots of shortcuts. Check with Alibre as to where you
get
> one, I
> > don't have one. But then, I'd probably never use it. For one
> thing, if I
> > work on another computer, I don't want to be somewhat crippled
> unless I drag
> > my own keyboard along. But it is available if you like keyboard
> shortcuts.
> > Also, there is LOTS of functionality in the right-click m
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Mirror

----------

From: resman43[SMTP:ESCHERER@SHEEPSCOTMACHINE.COM]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 2:07:58 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Mirror
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Hey......does anyone know if you can mirror a part and then delete
the original. I'd like to have a "left and Right" component that are
not constrained to each other in the assembly.
Thanks



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Spreadsheet driven design

----------

From: Greg Milliken
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 12:46:25 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alibre Design] Spreadsheet driven design
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Here is some info from our QA group on using the spreadsheet-driven
design capability in Alibre Design:

Link is limited in function, but it does work. If a parameter is
already driven by a spreadsheet, you can click Link to change the
spreadsheet that is used for that parameter. After doing that, the
equation is updated to show that the new file is being referenced.
The next time you use the Alibre Design Add-In on that spreadsheet,
you'll see that the Cell for that parameter is no longer blank, and
can be used to drive the design. However, you can also do this from
within the spreadsheet itself, just by choosing the parameter and
mapping a cell to it. So if the Excel file exists only in the file
system, Link is of limited value. Where it is useful is when the
Excel file is in the repository. You can deposit the Excel sheet to
repository and use this tool to Link the parameters to that location
in repository (not possible without using Link), and drive the
design by editing the Excel sheet directly in the repository. Sorry
that the help doesn't really explain this.

We've never encountered the problem David reported with the CSV
export. Note that it never says Unknown, but it can say Unavailable
in these cases:

1) there is no equation, just a value, then equation is Unavailable
2) there is no comment, then comment is Unavailable
3) there is no owner (i.e. associated feature or sketch), then owner
is Unavailable

You need to be looking in the value column, not the equation
column. If you don't see this you may be looking at the wrong
column.

Hope this helps.

-Greg


--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, Bob Utter <uncleace@b...> wrote:
> I have used it, and I just tried modifying a part by changing a
value in
> Excel. It seems to be working OK. I set it up by following the
step by step
> guidance in Alibre Help. Just type in "Excel" in the search field,
if you
> haven't already. If you have more specific questions, I'll try to
help.
>
> Best regards,
> Bob Utter
> Innovative Thermal Solutions, LLC
> 3402 Chase Road
> Adrian, MI 49221
> (517) 424-7107
> fax: (775) 854-4076
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bgrobolsek [mailto:bob@b...]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:21 AM
> > To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Alibre Design] Spreadsheet driven design
> >
> >
> > Has anyone tried to use the Excel Add in for driving design
dims? I
> > have been trying to do this, but the "Apply" button never
becomes
> > active. Any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Mirror

----------

From: jwknecht[SMTP:JWKNECHT@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:17:00 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Mirror
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Do the Feature/Scale and put a -1 in the appropriate Scale Factor
(X,Y or Z). Then save it as a new part. Use both parts in an assy.

--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "resman43" <ESCHERER@S...> wrote:
> Hey......does anyone know if you can mirror a part and then delete
> the original. I'd like to have a "left and Right" component that
are
> not constrained to each other in the assembly.
> Thanks



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Mirror

----------

From: resman43[SMTP:ESCHERER@SHEEPSCOTMACHINE.COM]
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2004 3:31:22 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Mirror
Auto forwarded by a Rule


aHH! Thanks........works great.

--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "jwknecht" <jwknecht@y...> wrote:
> Do the Feature/Scale and put a -1 in the appropriate Scale Factor
> (X,Y or Z). Then save it as a new part. Use both parts in an assy.
>
> --- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "resman43" <ESCHERER@S...> wrote:
> > Hey......does anyone know if you can mirror a part and then
delete
> > the original. I'd like to have a "left and Right" component that
> are
> > not constrained to each other in the assembly.
> > Thanks



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Spreadsheet driven design

----------

From: Tony[SMTP:GATICAEUROPE@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 2:55:45 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Alibre Design] Spreadsheet driven design
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Has anyone had success in using the spreadsheet to drive part sizes
in an assembly? Also, is there any way to update the values in the
spreadsheet and have them update in the part files WITHOUT having to
open up the Alibre add-in to get at the part file parameters and
clicking "modify"?

Thanks,
Tony



--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "gregmilliken" <gregm@a...> wrote:
> Here is some info from our QA group on using the spreadsheet-driven
> design capability in Alibre Design:
>
> Link is limited in function, but it does work. If a parameter is
> already driven by a spreadsheet, you can click Link to change the
> spreadsheet that is used for that parameter. After doing that, the
> equation is updated to show that the new file is being referenced.
> The next time you use the Alibre Design Add-In on that spreadsheet,
> you'll see that the Cell for that parameter is no longer blank, and
> can be used to drive the design. However, you can also do this
from
> within the spreadsheet itself, just by choosing the parameter and
> mapping a cell to it. So if the Excel file exists only in the file
> system, Link is of limited value. Where it is useful is when the
> Excel file is in the repository. You can deposit the Excel sheet
to
> repository and use this tool to Link the parameters to that
location
> in repository (not possible without using Link), and drive the
> design by editing the Excel sheet directly in the repository.
Sorry
> that the help doesn't really explain this.
>
> We've never encountered the problem David reported with the CSV
> export. Note that it never says Unknown, but it can say
Unavailable
> in these cases:
>
> 1) there is no equation, just a value, then equation is Unavailable
> 2) there is no comment, then comment is Unavailable
> 3) there is no owner (i.e. associated feature or sketch), then
owner
> is Unavailable
>
> You need to be looking in the value column, not the equation
> column. If you don't see this you may be looking at the wrong
> column.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -Greg
>
>
> --- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, Bob Utter <uncleace@b...> wrote:
> > I have used it, and I just tried modifying a part by changing a
> value in
> > Excel. It seems to be working OK. I set it up by following the
> step by step
> > guidance in Alibre Help. Just type in "Excel" in the search
field,
> if you
> > haven't already. If you have more specific questions, I'll try to
> help.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Bob Utter
> > Innovative Thermal Solutions, LLC
> > 3402 Chase Road
> > Adrian, MI 49221
> > (517) 424-7107
> > fax: (775) 854-4076
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: bgrobolsek [mailto:bob@b...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 10:21 AM
> > > To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Alibre Design] Spreadsheet driven design
> > >
> > >
> > > Has anyone tried to use the Excel Add in for driving design
> dims? I
> > > have been trying to do this, but the "Apply" button never
> becomes
> > > active. Any suggestions?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Drawing template - edit text field windo

----------

From: k_e_n_gies[SMTP:GIES@NIAGARA.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 7:21:46 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Drawing template - edit text field window
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Some time ago (possibly before SP1), when I would start a new
drawing, the 'edit text field window' would open on its own. Now I
have to open the drawing fully, click on my template, explode symbol,
then edit to access the 'edit text field window'. I use a custom
template. Have I changed a setting by mistake? Did SP1 change my
setting? Can someone tell me how to have the window pop up
automatically when I start a drawing?

Thanks,

Ken



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Newby Questions

----------

From: cad_mecmedia[SMTP:CAD_MECMEDIA@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:00:02 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Newby Questions
Auto forwarded by a Rule


--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Wertel" <swertel@y...> wrote:

> > 4) No macro language. You cannot write down a small script to
perform
> > a repetitive, parametric task.
>
> Nope, no macro language and no API, yet. Hopefully soon. I think
> there are some bigger feature necessities on the wish list before a
> programming interface gets implemented, but as I said earlier,
> hopefully soon.

I would like to take this opportunity for voting in favour of the
development of a scripting language and/or a API for Alibre Design.

Many of the mentioned "limits" of Alibre could be solved once and for
all by any experienced user with a small set of custom scripts. For
example, polygons and 3D Solids can be created by custom scripts. In
the same way, the calculated center of mass can be positioned into a
3D model and displaied using a custom script. Many new and
interesting features could be implemented by VARs and users, like
a "pipeline" or "tubing" feature dedicated to the people that makes
oleodynamics and pneumatics.

From the development process's point o view, allowing VARs and end
users to develop such custom scripts would be the same as widening
the developer's team by several units so, allow me to vote for it.

Just do not force us to use Visual Basic, please... ;-)

CU



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing template - edit text field w

----------

From: bgrobolsek[SMTP:BOB@BEACONMETALFAB.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:26:08 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing template - edit text field window
Auto forwarded by a Rule


I don't know why it does not pop up on its own. I just recently
created a new template, and by going to "sketch>text>field" and
entering the information that I wanted to be input at a new drawing
screen, the "input text field" window pops up after I start a new
drawing with that template.



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Drawing Wires

----------

From: bgrobolsek[SMTP:BOB@BEACONMETALFAB.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:27:43 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Drawing Wires
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Has anyone had any success trying to create 3 dimensional wires, or
tubes?



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing Wires

----------

From: cclark440[SMTP:CCLARK440@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:22:13 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing Wires
Auto forwarded by a Rule


I uploaded my first attempt at a 3D tube for you to take a look at
if you like. I had to use Sweeps,Lofts, and extrusions. It still
isn't quit the way I would like, but it works for now. The file name
is "Intake Tube.stp"

Clint


-
-- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "bgrobolsek" <bob@b...> wrote:
> Has anyone had any success trying to create 3 dimensional wires,
or
> tubes?



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing template - edit text field w

----------

From: k_e_n_gies[SMTP:GIES@NIAGARA.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 10:36:55 AM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing template - edit text field window
Auto forwarded by a Rule


I went through my fields in my template and did them over again and
it is working as it used to again.

--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "bgrobolsek" <bob@b...> wrote:
> I don't know why it does not pop up on its own. I just recently
> created a new template, and by going to "sketch>text>field" and
> entering the information that I wanted to be input at a new drawing
> screen, the "input text field" window pops up after I start a new
> drawing with that template.



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing Wires

----------

From: bgrobolsek[SMTP:BOB@BEACONMETALFAB.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 12:50:48 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing Wires
Auto forwarded by a Rule


That's similar to what I would like to do. However, it would be nice
if there was a way to draw a 3D spline to act as the sweep path.



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Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Alibre Design Forum Update

----------

From: yahoo-alibre
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 5:34:53 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Alibre Design Forum Update
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Hello Yahoo! group members.

We're making great progress on the new forum and will be pushing to
release it at the beginning of next week. Thanks to Tony Grogan for
recommending the PHPBB open-source bulletin board.

Alibre Administrator



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A

Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] placing matching holes

----------
From: Dave Grady[SMTP:DAGRADY@DIRECWAY.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 4:29:08 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] placing matching holes
Auto forwarded by a Rule

Hello,
What method does everyone use to place matching holes in parts? Say I have a die section with mounting holes in it and I place it on a die set in an assembly model. What is the best method to transfer the hole locations to the die set. The way I do it now is just place holes in the die set in approximate locations, then use a concentric constraint with the hole in the die section to move it into position. This works, but can be a little tedious, as you have to re-select the concentric tool for each hole. I have also had some problems with this method. Does anyone have any suggestions?


Dave Grady

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Anonymous

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FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Newby Questions

----------

From: nbennington[SMTP:NBENNINGTON@YAHOO.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:10:50 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Newby Questions
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Rhino has a great easy to learn, command line scripting language and
doesn't require Visual Basic ... my two cents!

Regards,
Nick


--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "cad_mecmedia" <cad_mecmedia@y...>
wrote:
> --- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Wertel" <swertel@y...> wrote:
>
> > > 4) No macro language. You cannot write down a small script to
> perform
> > > a repetitive, parametric task.
> >
> > Nope, no macro language and no API, yet. Hopefully soon. I
think
> > there are some bigger feature necessities on the wish list
before a
> > programming interface gets implemented, but as I said earlier,
> > hopefully soon.
>
> I would like to take this opportunity for voting in favour of the
> development of a scripting language and/or a API for Alibre Design.
>
> Many of the mentioned "limits" of Alibre could be solved once and
for
> all by any experienced user with a small set of custom scripts.
For
> example, polygons and 3D Solids can be created by custom scripts.
In
> the same way, the calculated center of mass can be positioned into
a
> 3D model and displaied using a custom script. Many new and
> interesting features could be implemented by VARs and users, like
> a "pipeline" or "tubing" feature dedicated to the people that
makes
> oleodynamics and pneumatics.
>
> From the development process's point o view, allowing VARs and end
> users to develop such custom scripts would be the same as widening
> the developer's team by several units so, allow me to vote for it.
>
> Just do not force us to use Visual Basic, please... ;-)
>
> CU



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Anonymous

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FW: [Alibre Design] placing matching holes

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From: Dave[SMTP:FLYWITHME6@COMCAST.NET]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 8:28:08 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Alibre Design] placing matching holes
Auto forwarded by a Rule


This may help – you don’t really need to reselect the concentric tool for each hole. I’m guessing what you see is that if you just keep picking holes, you’re either seeing the “overdefined” message, or you’re getting all the holes placed concentric with the first one. All you need to do is pick somewhere off in space. That will clear the concentric command and let you pick a new set. Otherwise it keeps the first item selected and keeps trying to make all other items picked concentric with the first one.



_____

From: Dave Grady [mailto:dagrady@direcway.com]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 4:29 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] placing matching holes



Hello,

What method does everyone use to place matching holes in parts? Say I have a die section with mounting holes in it and I place it on a die set in an assembly model. What is the best method to transfer the hole locations to the die set. The way I do it now is just place holes in the die set in approximate locations, then use a concentric constraint with the hole in the die section to move it into position. This works, but can be a little tedious, as you have to re-select the concentric tool for each hole. I have also had some problems with this method. Does anyone have any suggestions?





Dave Grady






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Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing Wires

----------

From: bobstertoo[SMTP:BOBSTER@NTPLX.NET]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:11:45 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Re: Drawing Wires
Auto forwarded by a Rule


I draw tubes using the thin wall boss feature and sweep it along a
spline. I'll upload an example to the files section.

--- In alibre@yahoogroups.com, "bgrobolsek" <bob@b...> wrote:
> That's similar to what I would like to do. However, it would be
nice
> if there was a way to draw a 3D spline to act as the sweep path.



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Anonymous

Guest
FW: [Alibre Design] Dimensions in fractions

----------

From: nickeide[SMTP:YAHOOGROUPS@OLDBRANCH.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2004 9:16:38 PM
To: alibre@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Alibre Design] Dimensions in fractions
Auto forwarded by a Rule


Hello,

Does anyone know of a way to set dimensions to fractions? I'd like to
be able to use 32nds. I've tried many things, one of the being
setting File>Properties>Units>Display Units>Format to fractions. It
works but the smallest denominator I can get is 16ths.

Any ideas?



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